Wednesday, February 21, 2007
Opposition shouts down P.M. over 'base' attack
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This is essentially what caused the uproar in Parliament today ...
Liberals shout down PM over 'base' attack
CBC News - February 21, 2007
Prime Minister Stephen Harper was shouted down with cries of "shame, shame" during question period Wednesday after he raised a media report that said a Liberal MP is the son-in-law of a man police allegedly interviewed in connection with the Air India bombing case.
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion was asking the prime minister about judicial appointments, accusing him of stacking the committees with Conservatives and jeopardizing the independence of the judiciary.
Harper responded that the Liberals opposed the changes the Conservative government has made that give police officers a voice in the process.
Then Harper said he was "not surprised, given what I'm reading in the Vancouver Sun today when I read this is how the Liberal party makes decisions."
"The Vancouver Sun has learned that the father-in-law of the member of Parliament for Mississauga-Brampton South …"
At that point, the last two rows of Liberal benches erupted in shouts, banging on their desks and jeering, the CBC's Susan Bonner reported. "They were ready for this. They were primed and they were angry," Bonner said.
Navdeep Singh Bains, the Liberal MP Harper was referring to, sat with his head down.
House Speaker Peter Miliken tried to get the Liberals to stop.
Harper suggested he was raising the issue because the Liberals are jeopardizing the Air India investigation by opposing provisions of the Anti-Terrorism Act.
"Even the Air India families say that the position [the Liberals] are now taking will jeopardize the police investigation into the Air India terrorism act."
Dion has said he is against extending those provisions that allow the hearings to take place.
The Vancouver Sun reported that Bains's father-in-law told the RCMP he had met a man who was later convicted of shooting a potential witness in the Air India trial. He also allegedly said he met with Ajaib Singh Bagri, who was later acquitted in the Air India bombing. The 1985 bombing killed 329 people.
The Vancouver Sun also reported that Bains's father-in-law is on the RCMP's potential list of witnesses at investigative hearings designed to advance the Air India criminal probe.
For the full CBC story go to:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/21/harper-house.html?ref=rss
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This is essentially what caused the uproar in Parliament today ...
Liberals shout down PM over 'base' attack
CBC News - February 21, 2007
Prime Minister Stephen Harper was shouted down with cries of "shame, shame" during question period Wednesday after he raised a media report that said a Liberal MP is the son-in-law of a man police allegedly interviewed in connection with the Air India bombing case.
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion was asking the prime minister about judicial appointments, accusing him of stacking the committees with Conservatives and jeopardizing the independence of the judiciary.
Harper responded that the Liberals opposed the changes the Conservative government has made that give police officers a voice in the process.
Then Harper said he was "not surprised, given what I'm reading in the Vancouver Sun today when I read this is how the Liberal party makes decisions."
"The Vancouver Sun has learned that the father-in-law of the member of Parliament for Mississauga-Brampton South …"
At that point, the last two rows of Liberal benches erupted in shouts, banging on their desks and jeering, the CBC's Susan Bonner reported. "They were ready for this. They were primed and they were angry," Bonner said.
Navdeep Singh Bains, the Liberal MP Harper was referring to, sat with his head down.
House Speaker Peter Miliken tried to get the Liberals to stop.
Harper suggested he was raising the issue because the Liberals are jeopardizing the Air India investigation by opposing provisions of the Anti-Terrorism Act.
"Even the Air India families say that the position [the Liberals] are now taking will jeopardize the police investigation into the Air India terrorism act."
Dion has said he is against extending those provisions that allow the hearings to take place.
The Vancouver Sun reported that Bains's father-in-law told the RCMP he had met a man who was later convicted of shooting a potential witness in the Air India trial. He also allegedly said he met with Ajaib Singh Bagri, who was later acquitted in the Air India bombing. The 1985 bombing killed 329 people.
The Vancouver Sun also reported that Bains's father-in-law is on the RCMP's potential list of witnesses at investigative hearings designed to advance the Air India criminal probe.
For the full CBC story go to:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/02/21/harper-house.html?ref=rss
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Comments:
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Mary,
I don't know what to think about this whole affair. Especially given that the current Air India Inquiry commissioner, the former Supreme Court Justice Mr John Major, had this to say:
"I have reached the conclusion that if the documents remain in a manner of speaking blacked out, there is no way I can carry out my mandate,"
He said he would inform Prime Minister Stephen Harper that he could not go forward with the inquiry unless government lawyers loosen their stance on keeping the documents under wraps.
"If the proceedings started today, under the circumstances, the redaction of the documents — that's the censoring or black-lining of the documents — would make them meaningless," Major said.
So, today the Prime Minister criticizes the ‘associations’ of a Liberal MP; yesterday the Vancouver Sun reveals that Paul Martin attended a meeting (16 years ago) with a group that is "now" said to be a 'terrorist' organization - according to CSIS, the same group that's trying to redact information that John Major says he needs to conduct his inquiry.
Are you confused yet?
Because I am.
I think the Sun story from yesterday is a plant...an attempt at after-the-fact character assassination and probably something leaked by CSIS itself.
Maybe not, but something is really rotten at the centre of this whole affair.
In my view. And it’s not just the behavior of a group of primed Liberal MPs. The Prime Minister is in this mess up to his armpits – and maybe a lot further.
I don't know what to think about this whole affair. Especially given that the current Air India Inquiry commissioner, the former Supreme Court Justice Mr John Major, had this to say:
"I have reached the conclusion that if the documents remain in a manner of speaking blacked out, there is no way I can carry out my mandate,"
He said he would inform Prime Minister Stephen Harper that he could not go forward with the inquiry unless government lawyers loosen their stance on keeping the documents under wraps.
"If the proceedings started today, under the circumstances, the redaction of the documents — that's the censoring or black-lining of the documents — would make them meaningless," Major said.
So, today the Prime Minister criticizes the ‘associations’ of a Liberal MP; yesterday the Vancouver Sun reveals that Paul Martin attended a meeting (16 years ago) with a group that is "now" said to be a 'terrorist' organization - according to CSIS, the same group that's trying to redact information that John Major says he needs to conduct his inquiry.
Are you confused yet?
Because I am.
I think the Sun story from yesterday is a plant...an attempt at after-the-fact character assassination and probably something leaked by CSIS itself.
Maybe not, but something is really rotten at the centre of this whole affair.
In my view. And it’s not just the behavior of a group of primed Liberal MPs. The Prime Minister is in this mess up to his armpits – and maybe a lot further.
# posted by 
: February 21, 2007 at 8:14 p.m.
: February 21, 2007 at 8:14 p.m.
Interesting point anon--
Wonder, of it was a leak/plant if it was given only under assurances that it was be run 'clean'?
And if so, does it necessarily have to be coming from CSIS (ie. could it not have come from the Pol side)?
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Wonder, of it was a leak/plant if it was given only under assurances that it was be run 'clean'?
And if so, does it necessarily have to be coming from CSIS (ie. could it not have come from the Pol side)?
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Can you please tell me what this has to do with the basi virk case? Are they somehow linked to terrorits?
# posted by : February 21, 2007 at 11:40 p.m.
: February 21, 2007 at 11:40 p.m.
gazetteer:
I hope Anon responds to your thoughts.
I'm increasingly conflicted about yesterday's events. There's way more to it than what we saw and heard.
I hope Anon responds to your thoughts.
I'm increasingly conflicted about yesterday's events. There's way more to it than what we saw and heard.
gazetteer:
I've been running this around in my head ever since yesterday - trying to fit the facts to several possibilities. There are RCMP prints on this story too - CBC was playing clips of a female officer who was also lobbying Harper and the House to keep the sunset provisions of the terrorist bill from blinking out...
There are several possibilities about that Sun story, in my view. It certainly has the look of a planted story - how big would your current (ca 2007) file (if you were a working reporter) on Paul Martin's failed bid for John Turner's dented crown be? That 'story' had to come from someone outside Kim Bolan's regular beat - and it had to be done with purpose and precise timing - or what's the point?
In my view there are two possible sources and one probable conduit for those sources...and I don't think it's a coincidence that the story broke in the Sun. I’m not much of a conspiracy buff….but, there is no way that the political half of this equation wasn’t aware of this little manufactured drama in advance. Add the slightly embarrassing fact that the Prime Minister is, by his own admission, diddling with the process of judicial selection in precisely the same way his predecessors did – and you have a lot of very good reasons to change the subject.
I've been running this around in my head ever since yesterday - trying to fit the facts to several possibilities. There are RCMP prints on this story too - CBC was playing clips of a female officer who was also lobbying Harper and the House to keep the sunset provisions of the terrorist bill from blinking out...
There are several possibilities about that Sun story, in my view. It certainly has the look of a planted story - how big would your current (ca 2007) file (if you were a working reporter) on Paul Martin's failed bid for John Turner's dented crown be? That 'story' had to come from someone outside Kim Bolan's regular beat - and it had to be done with purpose and precise timing - or what's the point?
In my view there are two possible sources and one probable conduit for those sources...and I don't think it's a coincidence that the story broke in the Sun. I’m not much of a conspiracy buff….but, there is no way that the political half of this equation wasn’t aware of this little manufactured drama in advance. Add the slightly embarrassing fact that the Prime Minister is, by his own admission, diddling with the process of judicial selection in precisely the same way his predecessors did – and you have a lot of very good reasons to change the subject.
# posted by : February 22, 2007 at 7:55 a.m.
: February 22, 2007 at 7:55 a.m.
Anon/Feb.21.
You may recall -- and I know, it's been 3 years and more -- that there was a strong political component to the story at the time of the arrests. And Paul Martin was at its centre, from 1990 onward. It's important to understand that, I think.
If you read up on the Erik Bornmann material, you'll see that Bornmann was trying to advance the career of Dave Basi into a fairly high-ranking new job in Prime Minister Martin's Office.
These factors are almost forgotten now; but this week's two Vancouver Sun stories shine a sliver of light onto those backroom events.
Kim Bolan is an outstanding journalist, I have a lot of confidence in her reports.
You may recall -- and I know, it's been 3 years and more -- that there was a strong political component to the story at the time of the arrests. And Paul Martin was at its centre, from 1990 onward. It's important to understand that, I think.
If you read up on the Erik Bornmann material, you'll see that Bornmann was trying to advance the career of Dave Basi into a fairly high-ranking new job in Prime Minister Martin's Office.
These factors are almost forgotten now; but this week's two Vancouver Sun stories shine a sliver of light onto those backroom events.
Kim Bolan is an outstanding journalist, I have a lot of confidence in her reports.
Bornamnn couldn't get basi and virk a job as a panhandler on Spark Street! Did you see the story in the Globe and Mail about corruption in the senior ranks of the rcmp? MP's were very critical of the senior brass in the rcmp about their inability to investigate and prosecute crimes committed by their own. Over $3 million dollars in contract money disappeared. Compare that to the bs job theory or the alleged payments of $25000 to basi and virk.
# posted by : February 22, 2007 at 3:54 p.m.
: February 22, 2007 at 3:54 p.m.
Commentors:
Must I remind you to please respect the right of the accused to be assumed innocent until trial, and to be tried in a B.C. court, under oath, protected by the rules of justice and the law.
I don't want to delete your comments!
But some of you throw around guilt as if it had no meaning. That's not right. And that's not what this web-site is about.
Anon (22 Feb) you have no idea what you're talking about but you're quite sure that one guy (not charged with anything) is guilty, and other guys (charged, for some reason) are innocent, while the whole doggone police force is bad, bad, ba-a-ad. Well, stuff a sock in it. OK?
Must I remind you to please respect the right of the accused to be assumed innocent until trial, and to be tried in a B.C. court, under oath, protected by the rules of justice and the law.
I don't want to delete your comments!
But some of you throw around guilt as if it had no meaning. That's not right. And that's not what this web-site is about.
Anon (22 Feb) you have no idea what you're talking about but you're quite sure that one guy (not charged with anything) is guilty, and other guys (charged, for some reason) are innocent, while the whole doggone police force is bad, bad, ba-a-ad. Well, stuff a sock in it. OK?
When a person admits to offering bribes while the people who were supposedly bribed say no way it didn't happen I would say there is something wrong wouldn't you Mary?? A person who does the seducing is as bad if not worse than those that were seduced. I gotta side with anonymous on this one.
# posted by : February 22, 2007 at 8:26 p.m.
: February 22, 2007 at 8:26 p.m.
Tom:
Read my lips. NO, I would NOT say that Erik Bornmann is wrong or guilty or whatever verdict you've just pronounced.
Read the mandate printed clearly at the top of this blog. It asks why the police raided the B.C. Legislature. It asks why people are left without information about that.
It says let's share what we know. That's what this blog is about. It is NOT about pre-judging the B.C. Rail Trial.
So if you have any helpful information about any aspect surrounding the giveaway of B.C. Rail ... let's hear that. But no more witch-hunting. OK?
One more thing: what, if any, is your particular interest in the guilt or innocence of the accused or the Crown witnesses in this case?
Read my lips. NO, I would NOT say that Erik Bornmann is wrong or guilty or whatever verdict you've just pronounced.
Read the mandate printed clearly at the top of this blog. It asks why the police raided the B.C. Legislature. It asks why people are left without information about that.
It says let's share what we know. That's what this blog is about. It is NOT about pre-judging the B.C. Rail Trial.
So if you have any helpful information about any aspect surrounding the giveaway of B.C. Rail ... let's hear that. But no more witch-hunting. OK?
One more thing: what, if any, is your particular interest in the guilt or innocence of the accused or the Crown witnesses in this case?
My interest is the same as you, I want answers to questions. I have a hard time believing a person who admits to bribing people under the blanket of immunity. Just for the record, are you on Bornmann's side? If you are you have no problem with a person who readily admits to bribing people??
# posted by : February 23, 2007 at 7:44 a.m.
: February 23, 2007 at 7:44 a.m.
"Just for the record", Tom, you idiot, read the masthead, check what I said above. How can you ask such a stupid question?
I'm not taking SIDES, for cryin' out loud.
Every British Columbian (and most Canadians) should inform themselves about the B.C. Rail Case.
This blog is set up to help them get information to do that.
When the trial of Basi, Virk, Basi begins, it will be much easier to give each person (the accused and the witnesses) their due.
Meantime, Tom, shape up and stop playing Chief Justice (or God). Give everybody the space they need to get ready for the ordeal of a trial.
I just hope you can listen to the evidence with more clarity than you've shown here.
I'm not taking SIDES, for cryin' out loud.
Every British Columbian (and most Canadians) should inform themselves about the B.C. Rail Case.
This blog is set up to help them get information to do that.
When the trial of Basi, Virk, Basi begins, it will be much easier to give each person (the accused and the witnesses) their due.
Meantime, Tom, shape up and stop playing Chief Justice (or God). Give everybody the space they need to get ready for the ordeal of a trial.
I just hope you can listen to the evidence with more clarity than you've shown here.
Let me interject. First lets keep the nasty comments to ourselves, we aren't the enemy its the soup nazi and his band of robbers. Tom I tend to agree with Mary. If Bornmann turned against his pals on the day of the raids, December 28 and told the police everything he knew I would then tend to believe him. Mary would you agree with me on this? Bornmann has credibility in my eyes if he told the truth on the day of the raids.
# posted by : February 23, 2007 at 10:04 a.m.
: February 23, 2007 at 10:04 a.m.
I didn't realize I would be attacked personally for getting in between you and anonymous. You should read your masthead again it clearly states "No I would not say the Erik Bornmann is wrong or guilty". So you are basically saying you think its okay to bribe government officials and suffer no legal consequences. Good one! Since we are on the subject and you always refer to it, what does the trial of basi and virk have to do with resort style casino's or Harpers fight with the federal libeals about the air india inquiry, or paul martin seeking the support of sikh youth groups in 1990?? Lets see if you can answer this without any insults or personal attacks.
# posted by : February 23, 2007 at 10:30 a.m.
: February 23, 2007 at 10:30 a.m.
Mary, wrt
"You should read your masthead again it clearly states "No I would not say the Erik Bornmann is wrong or guilty"
Now I'm a pretty good reader but I can't find that on your masthead. Am I missing something?
"You should read your masthead again it clearly states "No I would not say the Erik Bornmann is wrong or guilty"
Now I'm a pretty good reader but I can't find that on your masthead. Am I missing something?
Koot:
You haven't missed a thing. And that's why I said Ta Ta to Tom. Had enough.
More blogger problems. Can't sign in.
- BC Mary
You haven't missed a thing. And that's why I said Ta Ta to Tom. Had enough.
More blogger problems. Can't sign in.
- BC Mary
Everyone--
I have had an exchange with Kim Bolan who wrote the original story in the Sun.
You all might find it interesting.
Details at my place.
RossK
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I have had an exchange with Kim Bolan who wrote the original story in the Sun.
You all might find it interesting.
Details at my place.
RossK
.
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