Monday, September 07, 2009
"Unthinkable" that 3 police investigators, a special prosecutor and an agent acting for the BC A-G flew on an RCMP jet to see ACJ Dohm in Palm Springs
.
A comment from Lynx:
This is a really interesting excerpt to read from an article on Glen Clark's trial, especially in light of how the BC Rail case is proceeding...or not proceeding. It was written by Neal Hall in November, 2001.
" In 2001, Police went to Palm Springs, where judge was on vacation."
The wiretap authorization involving former B.C. premier Glen Clark was
illegal because it was approved by a vacationing judge in California who had
no jurisdiction to convene court outside of Canada, Clark's lawyer told a
pre-trial hearing Monday.
"It's unthinkable, almost, that this court can sit wherever it wants to,"
David Gibbons argued before B.C. Supreme Court Justice Elizabeth Bennett.
The defence lawyer pointed out that three police investigators, a special
prosecutor and an agent acting for the attorney-general of B.C. flew on an
RCMP jet to visit B.C. Supreme Court Associate Chief Justice Patrick Dohm
while he was vacationing in Palm Springs.
Dohm authorized police on Feb. 14, 1999, to secretly listen to the phone
calls of Dimitrios Pilarinos and others.
Gibbons argued Monday that the investigators, special prosecutor and
attorney- general's representative were illegally working in Palm Springs
without "green cards."
"None of them had any special authorization to work there," he told the
court.
Outside court, Gibbons told reporters the wiretap evidence ought to be
excluded because it was illegally obtained.
***********
He said he has never heard of a Canadian court proceeding being held outside Canada without the permission of foreign authorities.
"I mean, I wouldn't mind having my trials right now in southern California
either. It would be great. I'd love it. Fiji would be even nicer," Gibbons said."
*************
"Gibbons was also critical of the police investigators not keeping any notes
or recordings of private conversations with the judge vacationing in Palm
Springs.
"It is my own view that all discussions in regard to this matter should be
kept as part of the record so they can be reviewed by citizens later on. And
this case is a good case of an example of why that's necessary."
********
"As well as challenging Dohm's jurisdiction to conduct hearings outside
Canada, the defence lawyers claim police did not provide the judge with full
disclosure of the investigation before he approved the wiretap.
He also pointed out that the special prosecutor, Martin Taylor, was a former
B.C. Court of Appeal judge who selected Dohm as the judge to authorize the
wiretap.
Police continued using Dohm to authorize warrants after he went on vacation,
said Gibbons, who suggested police could have requested any of the 60-plus
other judges of the B.C. Supreme Court to hear further applications after
Dohm went on vacation.
Gibbons noted that Vancouver RCMP commercial crime Staff Sergeant Peter
Montague had private phone conversations with Dohm. Montague even sent the
judge a cellular phone so police could reach him while he was driving back
from Palm Springs.
The court was earlier told by special prosecutor Bill Smart that Dohm had approved, in early February 1999, the first warrant in the investigation
involving Clark and Pilarinos.
The judge, before going on vacation, had said that he wanted to be "seized"
of the file -- meaning he wanted to handle any future court
applications --because of the politically sensitive nature of the probe
involving the premier.
..... The two-month criminal trial is expected to start later this month.
The pre-trial defence motions have taken longer than expected,
"We're a month behind schedule already," the trial judge observed Monday.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Click HERE for a recent poll results on public satisfaction for BC's justice system.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Click HERE for
Confidence in B.C. legal system needs a boost from the A-G
Ian Mulgrew
Vancouver Sun - Sept. 8, 2009
... we have one of the most expensive legal systems and the costs keep going up.
It's now estimated to take at least five days and cost $60,000 for the average Supreme Court trial -- that's the median after-tax annual income of the average B.C. family. That's gone up 250 per cent in the last decade.
I'd say that's criminal too, never mind the barrier it represents to access to justice for normal people ...
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Angus Reid pollsters find fun with Campbell's collapse
By Vaughn Palmer
Vancouver Sun - Sept. 9, 2009
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
A comment from Lynx:
This is a really interesting excerpt to read from an article on Glen Clark's trial, especially in light of how the BC Rail case is proceeding...or not proceeding. It was written by Neal Hall in November, 2001.
" In 2001, Police went to Palm Springs, where judge was on vacation."
The wiretap authorization involving former B.C. premier Glen Clark was
illegal because it was approved by a vacationing judge in California who had
no jurisdiction to convene court outside of Canada, Clark's lawyer told a
pre-trial hearing Monday.
"It's unthinkable, almost, that this court can sit wherever it wants to,"
David Gibbons argued before B.C. Supreme Court Justice Elizabeth Bennett.
The defence lawyer pointed out that three police investigators, a special
prosecutor and an agent acting for the attorney-general of B.C. flew on an
RCMP jet to visit B.C. Supreme Court Associate Chief Justice Patrick Dohm
while he was vacationing in Palm Springs.
Dohm authorized police on Feb. 14, 1999, to secretly listen to the phone
calls of Dimitrios Pilarinos and others.
Gibbons argued Monday that the investigators, special prosecutor and
attorney- general's representative were illegally working in Palm Springs
without "green cards."
"None of them had any special authorization to work there," he told the
court.
Outside court, Gibbons told reporters the wiretap evidence ought to be
excluded because it was illegally obtained.
***********
He said he has never heard of a Canadian court proceeding being held outside Canada without the permission of foreign authorities.
"I mean, I wouldn't mind having my trials right now in southern California
either. It would be great. I'd love it. Fiji would be even nicer," Gibbons said."
*************
"Gibbons was also critical of the police investigators not keeping any notes
or recordings of private conversations with the judge vacationing in Palm
Springs.
"It is my own view that all discussions in regard to this matter should be
kept as part of the record so they can be reviewed by citizens later on. And
this case is a good case of an example of why that's necessary."
********
"As well as challenging Dohm's jurisdiction to conduct hearings outside
Canada, the defence lawyers claim police did not provide the judge with full
disclosure of the investigation before he approved the wiretap.
He also pointed out that the special prosecutor, Martin Taylor, was a former
B.C. Court of Appeal judge who selected Dohm as the judge to authorize the
wiretap.
Police continued using Dohm to authorize warrants after he went on vacation,
said Gibbons, who suggested police could have requested any of the 60-plus
other judges of the B.C. Supreme Court to hear further applications after
Dohm went on vacation.
Gibbons noted that Vancouver RCMP commercial crime Staff Sergeant Peter
Montague had private phone conversations with Dohm. Montague even sent the
judge a cellular phone so police could reach him while he was driving back
from Palm Springs.
The court was earlier told by special prosecutor Bill Smart that Dohm had approved, in early February 1999, the first warrant in the investigation
involving Clark and Pilarinos.
The judge, before going on vacation, had said that he wanted to be "seized"
of the file -- meaning he wanted to handle any future court
applications --because of the politically sensitive nature of the probe
involving the premier.
..... The two-month criminal trial is expected to start later this month.
The pre-trial defence motions have taken longer than expected,
"We're a month behind schedule already," the trial judge observed Monday.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Click HERE for a recent poll results on public satisfaction for BC's justice system.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Click HERE for
Confidence in B.C. legal system needs a boost from the A-G
Ian Mulgrew
Vancouver Sun - Sept. 8, 2009
... we have one of the most expensive legal systems and the costs keep going up.
It's now estimated to take at least five days and cost $60,000 for the average Supreme Court trial -- that's the median after-tax annual income of the average B.C. family. That's gone up 250 per cent in the last decade.
I'd say that's criminal too, never mind the barrier it represents to access to justice for normal people ...
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Angus Reid pollsters find fun with Campbell's collapse
By Vaughn Palmer
Vancouver Sun - Sept. 9, 2009
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Comments:
<< Home
Interesting what one judge says is "seized" and what another tries pretty hard to avoid being 'seized' of isn't it?
It's been said that the administration of justice isn't 'run' out of the AG's office these days.
Many legal 'experts' would say, I think, that the judges run the whole show pretty much on their own...
The way Mr Justice Dohm keeps popping up it's not hard to think why some observers might have come to that conclusion isn't it?
It's been said that the administration of justice isn't 'run' out of the AG's office these days.
Many legal 'experts' would say, I think, that the judges run the whole show pretty much on their own...
The way Mr Justice Dohm keeps popping up it's not hard to think why some observers might have come to that conclusion isn't it?
# posted by 
: September 7, 2009 at 4:37 p.m.
: September 7, 2009 at 4:37 p.m.
I concur, Anon 4:37,
It's as if Lynx had found an old black and white film of these Learned Friends behaving like Keystone Kops ...
and it's not so far removed from a long ago scene which Koot reported in which Bennett, Berardino, and maybe Bolton conducted a pre-trial hearing on the run in the Law Courts corridor ... Koot swears he saw it on the evening TV news. It's on his site [House of Infamy] way back when ...
.
It's as if Lynx had found an old black and white film of these Learned Friends behaving like Keystone Kops ...
and it's not so far removed from a long ago scene which Koot reported in which Bennett, Berardino, and maybe Bolton conducted a pre-trial hearing on the run in the Law Courts corridor ... Koot swears he saw it on the evening TV news. It's on his site [House of Infamy] way back when ...
.
And as we watch CN Railway becoming the "winner" of BC Rail....so too did BC Online:
[29] The principal conspiracy alleged by the plaintiff included the defendants, Gunton and Clark, and it is said that it had as its long‑held objective the anointment of MDA as the successful proponent. This conspiracy, it is alleged, was well‑served by the early rejection of Infowest by the Evaluation Committee."
***************************
Where the appearance of CPR and Omintrax were rejected outright by the BC Liberals, so too did a company called Infowest Services Inc. feel slighted by the NDP, however in the latter case there were no INSIDERS.
There was no raid on the Legislature.
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=glen+clark&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2004/2004bcsc1165/2004bcsc1165.html
[29] The principal conspiracy alleged by the plaintiff included the defendants, Gunton and Clark, and it is said that it had as its long‑held objective the anointment of MDA as the successful proponent. This conspiracy, it is alleged, was well‑served by the early rejection of Infowest by the Evaluation Committee."
***************************
Where the appearance of CPR and Omintrax were rejected outright by the BC Liberals, so too did a company called Infowest Services Inc. feel slighted by the NDP, however in the latter case there were no INSIDERS.
There was no raid on the Legislature.
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=glen+clark&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2004/2004bcsc1165/2004bcsc1165.html
Bottom line Judgment:
"[60] In my view, while all parties before me are very competently represented, this is one of the factually complex cases in which justice demands a traditional trial preceded by the full panoply of pre‑trial discovery procedures.
“R.J. Bauman, J.”
The Honourable Mr. Justice R.J. Bauman"
"full panoply of pre‑trial discovery procedures"
panoply defined: a complete and impressive array
"[60] In my view, while all parties before me are very competently represented, this is one of the factually complex cases in which justice demands a traditional trial preceded by the full panoply of pre‑trial discovery procedures.
“R.J. Bauman, J.”
The Honourable Mr. Justice R.J. Bauman"
"full panoply of pre‑trial discovery procedures"
panoply defined: a complete and impressive array
Anonymous, September 7, 2009 4:37 PM,said in part...
Many legal 'experts' would say, I think, that the judges run the whole show pretty much on their own...
-------------------
Possibly that's why so many folks no longer vote in elections. As its the Judges we should be voting for.
Many legal 'experts' would say, I think, that the judges run the whole show pretty much on their own...
-------------------
Possibly that's why so many folks no longer vote in elections. As its the Judges we should be voting for.
# posted by : September 7, 2009 at 6:20 p.m.
: September 7, 2009 at 6:20 p.m.
Hneri Paul, well said. Appointing judges imo doesnt seem to be serving us well. we should move to a US model asap. Then and only then can we let crimials out of jail becuase we have no money left to house everyone and anyone who gets thrown in the slammer.
# posted by : September 7, 2009 at 6:41 p.m.
: September 7, 2009 at 6:41 p.m.
Anon 6:41,
The U.S. model, you realize, includes having more people in prisons on a per capita basis, than any other nation on earth.
And you can see for yourself how the U.S. model has decreased crime ... I don't think so.
.
The U.S. model, you realize, includes having more people in prisons on a per capita basis, than any other nation on earth.
And you can see for yourself how the U.S. model has decreased crime ... I don't think so.
.
BC Mary. Thats absurd.
Tell me just how does releasing criminals from jail reduce crime?
Tell me how not charging and jailing criminals reduces crime?
Locking up criminals does so reduce crime. It acts as a deterant and stops the offender from commiting more often more serious crimes.
I have volumes of evidence of this. Dont get me going.
Tell me just how does releasing criminals from jail reduce crime?
Tell me how not charging and jailing criminals reduces crime?
Locking up criminals does so reduce crime. It acts as a deterant and stops the offender from commiting more often more serious crimes.
I have volumes of evidence of this. Dont get me going.
# posted by : September 7, 2009 at 8:53 p.m.
: September 7, 2009 at 8:53 p.m.
Anon 8:53, you are rude.
I didn't say that (to quote you) "not charging and jailing criminals reduces crime."
How about reading what I actually did say.
.
I didn't say that (to quote you) "not charging and jailing criminals reduces crime."
How about reading what I actually did say.
.
There is only one word that fits the justice system in BC: Filthy.
# posted by : September 7, 2009 at 9:20 p.m.
: September 7, 2009 at 9:20 p.m.
The United States has the highest per capita incarceration rate in the world...curious it hasn't turned that nation into one where there is no crime.
In fact, quite the contrary.
Nations with very low rates of incarceration are practically crime free by comparison.
You can look it up.
The notion that slapping people behind bars does anything to deter crime is absurd and the evidence is absolutely unequivocal.
Here’s a link to an excellent NYTimes series on the subject – Anon might care to have a look:
http://tiny.cc/ppdDP
In fact, quite the contrary.
Nations with very low rates of incarceration are practically crime free by comparison.
You can look it up.
The notion that slapping people behind bars does anything to deter crime is absurd and the evidence is absolutely unequivocal.
Here’s a link to an excellent NYTimes series on the subject – Anon might care to have a look:
http://tiny.cc/ppdDP
G West. Your observations do not support a relationship. for if they did, a person could conlcude that the appearance of police causes crime. Think about it. When there are no police around, things are fairly peaceful. The moment police arrive, and the more they arrive, the more bedlam. So is it the police that are causing the chaos? From your argument that would appear to be the case.
But please, if I am wrong, explain to us all how not jailing criminals reduces crime. I dare you.
that police cause crim
But please, if I am wrong, explain to us all how not jailing criminals reduces crime. I dare you.
that police cause crim
# posted by : September 8, 2009 at 11:46 a.m.
: September 8, 2009 at 11:46 a.m.
My observations don't support a relationship
Curious.
I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.
In fact, jailing criminals actually increases crime...where do you think most of the hardened criminals get their education - Harvard?
You haven't got a leg to stand on and I never contest an argument with an interlocutor who starts their case with a series of comments unsupported by either intelligence or facts.
Please, read the series from the New York Times first, then I'll consider debating with you,
Until then, bye.
Curious.
I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about.
In fact, jailing criminals actually increases crime...where do you think most of the hardened criminals get their education - Harvard?
You haven't got a leg to stand on and I never contest an argument with an interlocutor who starts their case with a series of comments unsupported by either intelligence or facts.
Please, read the series from the New York Times first, then I'll consider debating with you,
Until then, bye.
Here is a story from the msm that talks about an Angus Reid poll that captures BC's thoughts about the justice system.
http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Thieves+thrive+poll+shows/1873740/story.html
I could not find the poll at
http://www.angusreidstrategies.com/polls-analysis/opinion-polls
Although NW and team chided their methodology Angus Reid were the ones who had predicted the last provincial election most closely, just saying...
http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Thieves+thrive+poll+shows/1873740/story.html
I could not find the poll at
http://www.angusreidstrategies.com/polls-analysis/opinion-polls
Although NW and team chided their methodology Angus Reid were the ones who had predicted the last provincial election most closely, just saying...
# posted by : September 8, 2009 at 6:18 p.m.
: September 8, 2009 at 6:18 p.m.
Has a special prosecutor been appointed to investigate the missing emails? I recall the NDP justice critic made the request but I have never heard anymore about it. There is quite a bit of measurable public interest in the issue. Maybe the NDP or the media could follow up, anything is possible, LOL.
# posted by : September 8, 2009 at 7:52 p.m.
: September 8, 2009 at 7:52 p.m.
Here's the poll that was being discussed on CBC radio this morning:
http://www.vancouversun.com/pdf/pollresults.pdf
.
http://www.vancouversun.com/pdf/pollresults.pdf
.
More remarkable to me than the exact content of the blogs (such as this) is the fact that the anti-Campbell government component of the comment sections seem to be growing geometrically. I'm reading scores of broadside blasts from a continually greater number of new contributors, and the PAB minions who would attempt to stem the tide seem to be awash with the rest of the ship of fools' flotsam and jetsam. Of course, this BC Rail fiasco blog begs that the Campbell government be likened more to a trainwreck than a shipwreck, but our BC Liberals have done and allowed done plenty of bad things to our coastal and interior waters find themselves being equally maligned using nautical terms.
Time for the PABsters to jump ship. There will be nothing left to hold onto when Campbell Inc. goes down; and he will go down, his kind always do.
Time for the PABsters to jump ship. There will be nothing left to hold onto when Campbell Inc. goes down; and he will go down, his kind always do.
# posted by : September 8, 2009 at 10:36 p.m.
: September 8, 2009 at 10:36 p.m.
Nah....you're wrong SIG, Bill Tileman has been on vacation, we have to vent somewhere.
# posted by : September 8, 2009 at 10:43 p.m.
: September 8, 2009 at 10:43 p.m.
Re the poll: the 1% of the population that is composed of either politicians or court officers, loves the status quo, with its delays and defeats of justice. Opposition to said status quo should be 99%.
# posted by : September 9, 2009 at 3:00 a.m.
: September 9, 2009 at 3:00 a.m.
One has to wonder about a BC police force. If the RCMP are seen as a corrupt force (as many say they are)...just how corrupt do you think a force beholden to the Liberal government for their livelihood would be? Makes me shudder just thinking about it!
Hey! Maybe that's why the RCMP is so obedient to the cult...they're protecting their futures here in BC. That being the case...imagine the justice system privatized with all the current players in place. Ugh! Perhaps that's why things are taking so long?
Hey! Maybe that's why the RCMP is so obedient to the cult...they're protecting their futures here in BC. That being the case...imagine the justice system privatized with all the current players in place. Ugh! Perhaps that's why things are taking so long?
# posted by : September 9, 2009 at 8:44 a.m.
: September 9, 2009 at 8:44 a.m.
I must be really tired, because I found this rather amusing when one considers how long it's taken the justice system to deal with BVB. Mind, if we put JUSTIN to good use...we might get through the obstruction of justice/contempt of court cases a little quicker. Anyway...this gave me a giggle:
http://www.ag.gov.bc.ca/justin/index.htm
http://www.ag.gov.bc.ca/justin/index.htm
# posted by : September 9, 2009 at 9:28 a.m.
: September 9, 2009 at 9:28 a.m.
Re: Anon 10:43
"Nah....you're wrong SIG, Bill Tileman has been on vacation, we have to vent somewhere."
I've been watching this change take place since the election, Anon. It is a snowballing phenomenom: one often doesn't notice the snowball growing larger until it reaches a certain size, then, the weight of the ball coupled with its size allows its volume and mass to increase quite peceptively with each new turn. I believe that voter knowledge and distrust Campbell has reached critical mass. His words are recognized as having no substance, no believeability, though all his court jesters feign otherwise. He's a would-be dictator in proclaiming ownership of an economic wardrobe that never existed; none of his PABsters nor his CanWest bootlicks can continue the charade - the jig is up, the public is onto him.
"Nah....you're wrong SIG, Bill Tileman has been on vacation, we have to vent somewhere."
I've been watching this change take place since the election, Anon. It is a snowballing phenomenom: one often doesn't notice the snowball growing larger until it reaches a certain size, then, the weight of the ball coupled with its size allows its volume and mass to increase quite peceptively with each new turn. I believe that voter knowledge and distrust Campbell has reached critical mass. His words are recognized as having no substance, no believeability, though all his court jesters feign otherwise. He's a would-be dictator in proclaiming ownership of an economic wardrobe that never existed; none of his PABsters nor his CanWest bootlicks can continue the charade - the jig is up, the public is onto him.
# posted by : September 9, 2009 at 5:18 p.m.
: September 9, 2009 at 5:18 p.m.
His words are recognized as having no substance, no believeability, though all his court jesters feign otherwise. He's a would-be dictator in proclaiming ownership of an economic wardrobe that never existed; none of his PABsters nor his CanWest bootlicks can continue the charade - the jig is up, the public is onto him.
As I quipped in Wikispace earlier today, on the 2010 Olympics talkpage for anyone who'd care to look, the Premier is anything BUT a "reliable source", and it's odd to see mention of him in the same sentence as that phrase. The jig is so much up, SIG, that the fiddlers and twaddlers in the backbench should be looking around for a new piper to lead them out of the political wilderness, where they have suddenly found themselves; some must be contemplating the opening lines of the inferno - "I found myself lost, in a darkling wood" - and hoping for a Virgil to lead them out; through the Inferno if need be....
Remember, it only takes about five seats - is it six? four? - to bring down the government's majority. The political bravery required of the browbeaten backbenchers might be surprising but consider the meritorious conduct of others Liberal MLAs before them. The question is who's left who is far enough from the BC Rail deal and the various aspects of the coverup, and from other political baggage like the HST....really only one is needed, or two or three, to start the kernel of a new caucus. But mark my words, if enough "bolt" to bring down the House, say six of them, there'll be a lot more than six who'll desert Campbell.
I wouldn't hand this to the NDP; some of the Grits may yet rescue at least a minority situation, albeit with a different leader. Not the best scenario, but a scenario where some of the deep dark secrets of this regime will still be exposed; doing so will be the price of power for the "Reform Liberals" (to coin a name for them, should they emerge).
And to Leah about reviving the BCPP: somewhere in one of these threads I observed that one reason political corruption gets more readily investigated in the US is because of inter-agency rivalry between policing bodies, and the fact that they all breathe down each other's necks, even more than the legislative and executive and judicial branches of government do, and in some cases they're also beholden to the electorate.
Simply kicking out E Division and replacing them with a reborn BCPP just won't work - not until our whole political and judicial system has a major overhaul. Maybe transferring some power within the policing bodies to elected officials, charged with keeping the force(s) honest could be a short-term reform.....
As I quipped in Wikispace earlier today, on the 2010 Olympics talkpage for anyone who'd care to look, the Premier is anything BUT a "reliable source", and it's odd to see mention of him in the same sentence as that phrase. The jig is so much up, SIG, that the fiddlers and twaddlers in the backbench should be looking around for a new piper to lead them out of the political wilderness, where they have suddenly found themselves; some must be contemplating the opening lines of the inferno - "I found myself lost, in a darkling wood" - and hoping for a Virgil to lead them out; through the Inferno if need be....
Remember, it only takes about five seats - is it six? four? - to bring down the government's majority. The political bravery required of the browbeaten backbenchers might be surprising but consider the meritorious conduct of others Liberal MLAs before them. The question is who's left who is far enough from the BC Rail deal and the various aspects of the coverup, and from other political baggage like the HST....really only one is needed, or two or three, to start the kernel of a new caucus. But mark my words, if enough "bolt" to bring down the House, say six of them, there'll be a lot more than six who'll desert Campbell.
I wouldn't hand this to the NDP; some of the Grits may yet rescue at least a minority situation, albeit with a different leader. Not the best scenario, but a scenario where some of the deep dark secrets of this regime will still be exposed; doing so will be the price of power for the "Reform Liberals" (to coin a name for them, should they emerge).
And to Leah about reviving the BCPP: somewhere in one of these threads I observed that one reason political corruption gets more readily investigated in the US is because of inter-agency rivalry between policing bodies, and the fact that they all breathe down each other's necks, even more than the legislative and executive and judicial branches of government do, and in some cases they're also beholden to the electorate.
Simply kicking out E Division and replacing them with a reborn BCPP just won't work - not until our whole political and judicial system has a major overhaul. Maybe transferring some power within the policing bodies to elected officials, charged with keeping the force(s) honest could be a short-term reform.....
The Cheney connection, if found and exposed, might just be the opening of the door on US coverage of and interest in the political shenanigans going on in BC. EDS Advanced Solutions is Ross Perot, so that's not the link....is it maybe Maximus? Maybe Blackwater or another of his enterprises have been consulting for E-Comm? Or contracting out for the PAB? (everything else has been outsourced, why not the PAB too?).
Follow the money, follow the power....any chance of a Kinsella-Cheney link, too?
And where was it again, that Lara Dauphinee got her degree in International Relations - because U.Western Ontario has no such program....?? Maybe she's as invented as her degree is.....
Follow the money, follow the power....any chance of a Kinsella-Cheney link, too?
And where was it again, that Lara Dauphinee got her degree in International Relations - because U.Western Ontario has no such program....?? Maybe she's as invented as her degree is.....
Skookum1,
I think "following" Lara D. on Facebook or Twitter is like playing Silly Bugger in the extreme.
I would like to have a better biography of her. That doesn't seem a lot to ask, considering the whopping salary the taxpayers are paying her.
Her degree is shown on a BC government site is B.A. in "International Politics" which is a degree I never heard of before ... have you?
And it's supposed to be from University of Western Ontario. But their online calendar doesn't show any such faculty.
So, I mean, it doesn't seem as if there'd be much more actual info on those Twitter sites, ya think?
.
I think "following" Lara D. on Facebook or Twitter is like playing Silly Bugger in the extreme.
I would like to have a better biography of her. That doesn't seem a lot to ask, considering the whopping salary the taxpayers are paying her.
Her degree is shown on a BC government site is B.A. in "International Politics" which is a degree I never heard of before ... have you?
And it's supposed to be from University of Western Ontario. But their online calendar doesn't show any such faculty.
So, I mean, it doesn't seem as if there'd be much more actual info on those Twitter sites, ya think?
.
SharingIsGood,
Sigh! Were it only so.
I have sought that which you speak of as the ultimate in the Social Contract between the governed and the government and maybe this old cynic has lost hope for the Great Awakening to happen in his lifetime. God knows the time is right, and Mammon Knows his minions loyalties are serving him well.
Will people of integrity exist in such numbers as to tilt the scale of Justice back into harmony?
Sigh! Were it only so.
I have sought that which you speak of as the ultimate in the Social Contract between the governed and the government and maybe this old cynic has lost hope for the Great Awakening to happen in his lifetime. God knows the time is right, and Mammon Knows his minions loyalties are serving him well.
Will people of integrity exist in such numbers as to tilt the scale of Justice back into harmony?
# posted by : September 9, 2009 at 8:44 p.m.
: September 9, 2009 at 8:44 p.m.
Hi Skookum, You're probably right..but I hope you didn't get the idea that I thought a BCPP beholden to the Campbell cult for their employment would be a good idea!
We do need a way to clean out what appears to be a corrupted Supreme Court, and police force though. We simply can't continue the way we've been going. The longer it takes to do it, the more entrenched the wrongs become. Is there a way the citizens can force these changes through? We have to know that it won't be easy because the system is going to fight to preserve itself...seriously, where do we begin the process?
As for Lara D.,...meh. In light of the salary and publicly paid expenses she has incurred I think we are entitled to know her history. She is the only one in government whose history is a black hole, with the blessing of her..."employer." So little about her is publicly known, are we even sure she's Canadian?
We do need a way to clean out what appears to be a corrupted Supreme Court, and police force though. We simply can't continue the way we've been going. The longer it takes to do it, the more entrenched the wrongs become. Is there a way the citizens can force these changes through? We have to know that it won't be easy because the system is going to fight to preserve itself...seriously, where do we begin the process?
As for Lara D.,...meh. In light of the salary and publicly paid expenses she has incurred I think we are entitled to know her history. She is the only one in government whose history is a black hole, with the blessing of her..."employer." So little about her is publicly known, are we even sure she's Canadian?
# posted by : September 9, 2009 at 9:35 p.m.
: September 9, 2009 at 9:35 p.m.
Dear BC Mary,
A search of Google using the keywords of:
The University of Western Ontario International Politics
Results in 481,000 hits but the first page will do nicely, fourth item down:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=The+University+of+Western+Ontario++International+Politics+&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
*******************************
http://www.kings.uwo.ca/courses/course_outlines/outlines/Political%20Science/2009/fall/ps2231e_sep09_int_pol.pdf
[PDF]
DEPARTMENT OF POLITICAL SCIENCE -- KING'S UNIVERSITY COLLEGE The ...
The University of Western Ontario. Politics 2231E: International Politics (Sections 570). 2009-2010. Dr. Tozun Bahcheli. Office: DL 203, Dante Lenardon Hall ...
Now to find a list of graduates......
A search of Google using the keywords of:
The University of Western Ontario International Politics
Results in 481,000 hits but the first page will do nicely, fourth item down:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=The+University+of+Western+Ontario++International+Politics+&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
*******************************
http://www.kings.uwo.ca/courses/course_outlines/outlines/Political%20Science/2009/fall/ps2231e_sep09_int_pol.pdf
[PDF]
DEPARTMENT OF POLITICAL SCIENCE -- KING'S UNIVERSITY COLLEGE The ...
The University of Western Ontario. Politics 2231E: International Politics (Sections 570). 2009-2010. Dr. Tozun Bahcheli. Office: DL 203, Dante Lenardon Hall ...
Now to find a list of graduates......
[PDF]
DEPARTMENT OF POLITICAL SCIENCE -- KING'S UNIVERSITY COLLEGE The ..
The University of Western Ontario. Politics 2231E: International Politics (Sections 570). 2009-2010. Dr. Tozun Bahcheli. Office: DL 203, Dante Lenardon Hall ...
http://www.kings.uwo.ca/courses/course_outlines/outlines/Political%20Science/2009/fall/ps2231e_sep09_int_pol.pdf
A page and a half are dedicated to:
University of Western Ontario
POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT
Policy Regarding Plagiarism
Is plagiarism the same as fudget budgeting, you know like copying the work of others who used fudged budgets to pass the entrance exams to another term of office?
DEPARTMENT OF POLITICAL SCIENCE -- KING'S UNIVERSITY COLLEGE The ..
The University of Western Ontario. Politics 2231E: International Politics (Sections 570). 2009-2010. Dr. Tozun Bahcheli. Office: DL 203, Dante Lenardon Hall ...
http://www.kings.uwo.ca/courses/course_outlines/outlines/Political%20Science/2009/fall/ps2231e_sep09_int_pol.pdf
A page and a half are dedicated to:
University of Western Ontario
POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT
Policy Regarding Plagiarism
Is plagiarism the same as fudget budgeting, you know like copying the work of others who used fudged budgets to pass the entrance exams to another term of office?
N.V.G.,
Nice work!
Ya wouldn't be lookin' for steady employment, wouldya? Man, have I got the job for you ... no pay, of course, but lots and lots and lots of fact-checking ... what do you say?
MANY THANKS for this discovery.
.
Nice work!
Ya wouldn't be lookin' for steady employment, wouldya? Man, have I got the job for you ... no pay, of course, but lots and lots and lots of fact-checking ... what do you say?
MANY THANKS for this discovery.
.
Vaughn Palmer handed out bouquets of praises when his fact finder/researcher retired four months ago......... I thought he VP did it all by his lonesome.....
Fact-checking????? I thought that's what I was being "paid" to do here anyway.
Fact-checking????? I thought that's what I was being "paid" to do here anyway.
I wonder if Prof. Tozun Bachell could be persuaded to impart memories of a student; maybe for someone posing as a "legitimate reporter" claiming he was doing a soft-soap bio of one of BC's more luminary civil servants?
About Cheney/Blackwater - by any chance, are American security firms being hired to fill out the cost-overrun budget for Olympic security? Are any Canadian firms being hired subsidiaries of any American ones?
About Cheney/Blackwater - by any chance, are American security firms being hired to fill out the cost-overrun budget for Olympic security? Are any Canadian firms being hired subsidiaries of any American ones?
I think I feel inclined to agree with SIG, re: the increase in visible/audible comments here critical of Herr Campbell. I was going to comment regarding this before even reading this thread because of the 68 comments (as of now) on the previous Robin Matthews contribution. In the past I was always somewhat amazed that there was so few comments left after Robin's incredibly detailed and ACCURATE posts - the accuracy being possible thanks to his high frequency of attendence at hearings in the Kabuki Chamber and his follow through trying to obtain transscripts and other information that SHOULD BELONG TO THE PUBLIC that pays for and SHOULD BE SERVED BY the (in)Justice System. I tended to accept the lack of discussion after his posts as a result of there being so little left to say about the subject after Robin did his part - but the previous post about the two Justice systems and its 68 comments so far may even be a record for the Ledge Raids - though I'm not going to scan over 1000 posts just to establish whether that is indeed the case!
After the disappointment of the phony May 12 election that avoided the issues with the co-operation of the Campbelloids and the Asspersonoids and their mutual enabling of the ethical and moral vacuum in which we exist, this increase of discussion here at Mary's is one of the few encouraging signs that karma will indeed catch up with the forces of evil and greed that dominate BC and Canada currently.
As to the apparently confused and confusing anon-O-mouthpiece who is trying to argue with Mary and G West about jailing the population to solve crime - all I can say is get a grip. Aside from the obvious example of the US as proof that the crime problem is more complex than just sayin' "book 'em Danno" the threat of incarceration as a deterrent to crime is also highly over-rated. For proof of that one needs only to go back to 17th and 18th century Merrie Olde Englande when over 100 offences, including pick-pocketing were capital offenses. Proving the effectiveness (irony alert) was the fact that the PUBLIC executions were a magnet for pick-pockets who had a hay-day while the massive crowds were distracted by the spectacle of pick-pockets being hung.
Add the slowness, and ineffectiveness of the (in)Justice System itself to this mix and any potential deterrent effect is effectively neutered anyway as one has to believe one that they will be caught, then that they will be convicted and then that they will actually have to "do their time" or whatever - all of which are far from likely. Sane drug laws/policy and more attention to education and correcting social injustice would solve crime much more efficiently than the Old Testament theories of the Harperites and Conservatives of all stripes.
People with other options are less likely to see crime as an opportunity and watching our so called leaders commit crimes with impunity doesn't do much to encourage the lower classes to follow the rules either. The Repeal of Prohibition did more to reduce violence in Chicago and other US locations back in the day than 1000 Elliot Nesses arresting and jailing bootleggers and gangsters 24/7.
After the disappointment of the phony May 12 election that avoided the issues with the co-operation of the Campbelloids and the Asspersonoids and their mutual enabling of the ethical and moral vacuum in which we exist, this increase of discussion here at Mary's is one of the few encouraging signs that karma will indeed catch up with the forces of evil and greed that dominate BC and Canada currently.
As to the apparently confused and confusing anon-O-mouthpiece who is trying to argue with Mary and G West about jailing the population to solve crime - all I can say is get a grip. Aside from the obvious example of the US as proof that the crime problem is more complex than just sayin' "book 'em Danno" the threat of incarceration as a deterrent to crime is also highly over-rated. For proof of that one needs only to go back to 17th and 18th century Merrie Olde Englande when over 100 offences, including pick-pocketing were capital offenses. Proving the effectiveness (irony alert) was the fact that the PUBLIC executions were a magnet for pick-pockets who had a hay-day while the massive crowds were distracted by the spectacle of pick-pockets being hung.
Add the slowness, and ineffectiveness of the (in)Justice System itself to this mix and any potential deterrent effect is effectively neutered anyway as one has to believe one that they will be caught, then that they will be convicted and then that they will actually have to "do their time" or whatever - all of which are far from likely. Sane drug laws/policy and more attention to education and correcting social injustice would solve crime much more efficiently than the Old Testament theories of the Harperites and Conservatives of all stripes.
People with other options are less likely to see crime as an opportunity and watching our so called leaders commit crimes with impunity doesn't do much to encourage the lower classes to follow the rules either. The Repeal of Prohibition did more to reduce violence in Chicago and other US locations back in the day than 1000 Elliot Nesses arresting and jailing bootleggers and gangsters 24/7.
Regarding the HST, this morning on the CBC (radio) someone (Chamber of Commerce type from Kelowna commenting on Colin "the Sneer that walks like a man" Hansen's speech to the Kelowna CofC last night) implied that every jurisdiction EXCEPT for Manitoba, Saskatchewan and P.E.I. had instituted either the HST or its equivalent (ie Quebec).
Well have I been asleep? Because the last I knew Alberta, that bastion of post-democratic idiocy had no truck with any sales tax, excepting the federally mandated GST (or maybe they rebate the citizens with gambling funds for that)- amazingly Alberta receives more revenue for government services and infrastructure from gambling - fleecing the dumber residents - than from the ENTIRE petroleum industry in royalties and/or taxes.......go figger!
So was this typical neo-con from the Valley that elects Stockboy Day and half of the BC liaR Cabinet being disingenuous accidentally or on purpose? If we could divest ourselves of the Okanagan Valley and the Lower Vainland, BC would be a really nice place.
Well have I been asleep? Because the last I knew Alberta, that bastion of post-democratic idiocy had no truck with any sales tax, excepting the federally mandated GST (or maybe they rebate the citizens with gambling funds for that)- amazingly Alberta receives more revenue for government services and infrastructure from gambling - fleecing the dumber residents - than from the ENTIRE petroleum industry in royalties and/or taxes.......go figger!
So was this typical neo-con from the Valley that elects Stockboy Day and half of the BC liaR Cabinet being disingenuous accidentally or on purpose? If we could divest ourselves of the Okanagan Valley and the Lower Vainland, BC would be a really nice place.
Well put koot...could hardly have put it better myself.
I've also noticed an increase in the traffic from Gordocrats and Harperites at the mild one lately...
I've also noticed an increase in the traffic from Gordocrats and Harperites at the mild one lately...
Koot,
Gladly, I will always read the excellent prose that comes from your hands. And, thanks for the history lesson on 17th and 18th century English pick pocketing, the first I've heard of such.
Just one correction: "Sneer that walks [somewhat] like a man". A truly mature person, be it a man or a woman, lives by the truth as nearly as he or she can find and present it.
Gladly, I will always read the excellent prose that comes from your hands. And, thanks for the history lesson on 17th and 18th century English pick pocketing, the first I've heard of such.
Just one correction: "Sneer that walks [somewhat] like a man". A truly mature person, be it a man or a woman, lives by the truth as nearly as he or she can find and present it.
# posted by : September 10, 2009 at 4:40 p.m.
: September 10, 2009 at 4:40 p.m.
A search of UWO search engine and the keywords Gordon Campbell... this document is dated Aug. 20, 2009
http://politicalscience.uwo.ca/undergrad/335e/outline.pdf
Page 24
"2. Outline and assess the
"opportunities for the cabinet to receive "public input" from the
Canadian electorate and in particular interest groups. Discuss and evaluate the merits of "open cabinet meetings" that have been established by Premier Gordon Campbell. Should government backbench members of parliament serve on cabinet committees or attend cabinet meetings? Should the electorate have more access to cabinet documents under the federal Access to Information Act?"
Maybe Lara should bring her alma mater up to speed on the fact that Gordon Campbell is in two his second four year term where there hasn't been the New Era promise of Open Cabinet Meetings....
http://politicalscience.uwo.ca/undergrad/335e/outline.pdf
Page 24
"2. Outline and assess the
"opportunities for the cabinet to receive "public input" from the
Canadian electorate and in particular interest groups. Discuss and evaluate the merits of "open cabinet meetings" that have been established by Premier Gordon Campbell. Should government backbench members of parliament serve on cabinet committees or attend cabinet meetings? Should the electorate have more access to cabinet documents under the federal Access to Information Act?"
Maybe Lara should bring her alma mater up to speed on the fact that Gordon Campbell is in two his second four year term where there hasn't been the New Era promise of Open Cabinet Meetings....
At the very least, NVG, send that to the student paper at UWO.....
In re this sort of byline:
"Intentional coverup or political pollyannas - why is academia concealing the truth about corruption in British Columbia? How UWO is aiding in the sell-off of BC...."
If the schedule for that class is still upcoming, they'd do well to have a visit from Mary, or Professor Mathews....or Paul Nettleton.....
That's pretty rank as far as bald-faced lie-as-truth re-coding of reality goes....."good is bad", "truth is false", "love is hate" etc....tell the world about the complete opposite of what you're doing, and tell it as loudly and convincingly as possible...unnervingly like that Goebbels fellow, with a touch of Orwell thrown in for sure. And is it just me, or is there something about Gordo that makes you think of David Icke's serpent people/aliens?? Or a more sinister version of the Coneheads?
Dollars to donuts Lara had something to do with that course outline.....
In re this sort of byline:
"Intentional coverup or political pollyannas - why is academia concealing the truth about corruption in British Columbia? How UWO is aiding in the sell-off of BC...."
If the schedule for that class is still upcoming, they'd do well to have a visit from Mary, or Professor Mathews....or Paul Nettleton.....
That's pretty rank as far as bald-faced lie-as-truth re-coding of reality goes....."good is bad", "truth is false", "love is hate" etc....tell the world about the complete opposite of what you're doing, and tell it as loudly and convincingly as possible...unnervingly like that Goebbels fellow, with a touch of Orwell thrown in for sure. And is it just me, or is there something about Gordo that makes you think of David Icke's serpent people/aliens?? Or a more sinister version of the Coneheads?
Dollars to donuts Lara had something to do with that course outline.....
Today I received one of those Google-Alert messages telling me that Lara Dauphinee is inviting people to be her friend on Facebook ... complete with a new photo.
Not me, kiddo.
But I am trying to persuade North Van's Grumps to follow the lady ... or you, Skookum1.
Ya think she'd chat about ... well, one thing or another? Me, I sure don't think so, but you never really know, I guess.
.
Not me, kiddo.
But I am trying to persuade North Van's Grumps to follow the lady ... or you, Skookum1.
Ya think she'd chat about ... well, one thing or another? Me, I sure don't think so, but you never really know, I guess.
.
Sig:
I'm not 100% certain of which centuries that pick-pockets were being hung to provide cover for unapprehended pickpockets at work. It may have even extended into the Dickensian times of the 19th century. And colorful entertaining means of excecution (dipping in hot tar, drawing and quartering etc.) made simple hanging almost a mercy killing like lethal injection of its day. I guess we may have progressed in that we (or many of us) are entertained by "reality" TeeVee rather than Christians and Lions at the Colleseum or public executions.
I guess your correction was the "somewhat" part, and I guess I may have been giving the pond scum too much credit. I must admit I stole the general expression from the Foth and his name for the Mulroney (the Jaw that Walks Like a Man).
But I can no more look at Colon (not)Handsome and not think of his sneer than I can look at George Abbot and not wonder when is Bobble Head day at GM Place or Rich Coleman without wondering about the price of pork futures.
Or just about any BC liaR Cabinet Minister without wondering which Rape of the River Greed Power Corp he/she will sit on the board of someday!
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I'm not 100% certain of which centuries that pick-pockets were being hung to provide cover for unapprehended pickpockets at work. It may have even extended into the Dickensian times of the 19th century. And colorful entertaining means of excecution (dipping in hot tar, drawing and quartering etc.) made simple hanging almost a mercy killing like lethal injection of its day. I guess we may have progressed in that we (or many of us) are entertained by "reality" TeeVee rather than Christians and Lions at the Colleseum or public executions.
I guess your correction was the "somewhat" part, and I guess I may have been giving the pond scum too much credit. I must admit I stole the general expression from the Foth and his name for the Mulroney (the Jaw that Walks Like a Man).
But I can no more look at Colon (not)Handsome and not think of his sneer than I can look at George Abbot and not wonder when is Bobble Head day at GM Place or Rich Coleman without wondering about the price of pork futures.
Or just about any BC liaR Cabinet Minister without wondering which Rape of the River Greed Power Corp he/she will sit on the board of someday!
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