The Legislature Raids

Good point - someone should call the Courts Services Personnel and ask why this is not entered into the daily docket.
 

Just plain garden variety incompetence - that's all it is - that, and the fact that the Campbell government has been starving court services and shutting down court houses for years.

I think you'll attest to the fact this kind of 'service' has been pretty much de rigeur in the Vancouver Courts for years.
 

I just got a Vancouver Sun News Alert:

"Stephen Owen will conduct a review of B.C.'s special prosecutor system, the government announced Thursday morning."

This isn't Friday, its not even 4:00 in the afternoon.

Have the BC Liberals turned over a new leaf, before a long weekend too......
 

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/05/20/bc-special-prosecutors-review-stephen-owen.html
 

Liberals haven't turned over anything. This is a deflection from the trial and The HST campaign.
Owens report isn't due till July (after the BC Rail Trial?) and isn't binding. Typical Loser Liberal smoke and Mirrors.
Has anyone noticed that the SP in the BC Rail Trial (who is in apparent conflict) wasn't even mentioned in the news release?
 

In today's Winnipeg Free Press:

Lawyer alleges premier phoned accused in legislature raid to "keep mouth shut".

A good report.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/premiers-chief-of-staff-says-he-didnt-know-about-aides-calls-to-radio-show-94511989.html
 

"Mr. McCullough didn't seem to buy it. Nor did he appear convinced when Mr. Brown denied he had sanctioned a paid counter-protest to a 2007 anti-fish farming rally in Victoria, purportedly organized by another accused, David Basi."

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=3053659

Here we have a David Basi organizing a counter-protest to a 2007 anti-fish farming rally...... Basi was working for the BC Liberal even though he was charged with corruption?

Is this possible?
 

Lawyer alleges premier phoned accused in legislature raid to "keep mouth shut".

That comes off as a threat. And threats are crimes.

The Liberal caucus, if it knows what's good for itself, will disown this man as soon as possible....it's kind of already too late to salvage the party/coalition, but it's not too late for some of them to save their necks by crossing the floor and, er, bringing down the House; maybe of necessity a houescall to Government House would be necessary, to inform the L-G that they have abandoned allegiance to him as a matter of confidence, and that the Privy Council needs a new first minister....
 

I'm with Gary--

I expect 6 or 7 deflector spin stories/document dumps tomorrow to try and spike this thing off the front page over the weekend.

Me, I've got a couple of my own document dumps planned.....One involves the so-called 'failure-strategy'....One involves the Crown's 'star' witness with the Spidey-Sense....

.
 

G West said...
on May 20, 2010 3:26 PM:

"Just plain garden variety incompetence - that's all it is - that, and the fact that the Campbell government has been starving court services and shutting down court houses for years.

I think you'll attest to the fact this kind of 'service' has been pretty much de rigeur in the Vancouver Courts for years."

I don't agree. I have just been through 18 months of so-called incompetence by court officials, lawyers and even BC Supreme Court justices. It's a convenient "out" for which there is no deterrent. All they have to do is to claim "oops, it was an error", and there are no repercussion, and no reason not to employ these tactics again.

These are not errors; this is a modus operandi of those in the legal system who seek to mislead and defraud – the public, their clients, the opposition... whomever opposes them or seeks to disclose their deeds.

Don't be naive GWest. There is wholesale corruption in BC's court system, and it includes the court house staff as well as their masters, judicial and political.

CC

May 20, 2010 3:26 PM
 

One Anonymous above wrote this:

"Mr. McCullough didn't seem to buy it. Nor did he appear convinced when Mr. Brown denied he had sanctioned a paid counter-protest to a 2007 anti-fish farming rally in Victoria, purportedly organized by another accused, David Basi."

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=3053659


Today in the Vancouver Province, by Keith Fraser the year is 2003.

These tape recordings that reporters are permitted to carry into court are either not the perfect instrument that they claim to be by their makers OR the Creator of the human ear/brain is not perfect. Just how much are we hearing via the MSM the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the Truth.

It appears that the defense team of lawyers are painting the Liberals out to be the bad guys, eh. Martyn Brown denies making the phone calls to Bobby Virk, that the BC Liberal Party will support him "Just keep your mouth shut". Deny, deny, deny.

Which means the other person, Gordon Muir Campbell will have to take the stand to Deny, deny, deny..... but in this day and age there are phone records, both at the receiving end and the other sending the message.

Time for squirming over the possibilities is over Premier. Your move.
 

Canadian Canary:
I disagree. If you've been following the court calendar issue - as I have, you'd know that these listings are frequently posted; corrected; reposted; forgotten; posted late and sometimes not posted at all.

I'm sorry you've had a bad time in the courts - so have others; without knowing your personal facts (and the other side of the story) I couldn't possibly comment. Our system of justice is far from perfect - but concluding the whole affair is rotten from the experiences of one anonymous poster just isn't on.

The scheduling issues I addressed (and Mary commented about) in this instance are not unique to the Basi case.

There are lots of things wrong with court services - a good deal of it a result of under-funding and misguided attempts to consolidate services in ways 'designed' to save money and eliminate jobs.

Some of it is a result of a certain self-assured arrogance - the kind of thing that attaches itself to the operation of most elites.

Mistakes also happen when too much is expected from people already under too much pressure and - as I suggested - incompetence also plays a role from time to time.

But, the suggestion that there is wholesale corruption in the BC Court System is, frankly, offensive and a stupid thing to say.

I've been involved, one way or another, with legal matters for all of my adult life. There ARE problems in our justice system which need addressing - wholesale corruption isn't one of them.

As for the suggestion that I'm naive; don't make me laugh.
 

G. West:

"But, the suggestion that there is wholesale corruption in the BC Court System is, frankly, offensive and a stupid thing to say."

I beg, with respect, to differ!
I don't know if it is retail or wholesale, but corruption is rife in the so-called BC Justice System. From suspect "oh so" Special Prosecutors, to with holding or destroying evidence with no consequences to suspect re-assignment of judges - all of which is glaringly obvious in the current mockery of a trial being conducted under the controlling hand of the hand picked J-Mac.

A lot of it is from under-resourcing (closing of court houses, neglecting to appoint judges to fill vacancies, degradation of both crown and public defender services) but there is also an evil agenda being played out that involves manipulation of the system itself to protect the biggest and so far most successful criminal organization in British Columbia, AKA the Campbell Regime!
 

One only has to read various judgments and pay attention to who's doing what, to see that the entire system has been corrupted, from the Supreme Court all the way down.

This case will prove that better than any other GWest. Just watch.
 

GWest said: There are lots of things wrong with court services - a good deal of it a result of under-funding and misguided attempts to consolidate services in ways 'designed' to save money and eliminate jobs.

GWest, first my apologies for calling you naive. That was wrong.

Howver, I must take issue with your comments. You have no way of knowing that "a good deal" of the things wrong with the court are because of underfunding and misguided actions.

You simply cannot know that.

"Being involved with the legal matters one way or another all your life" well, what does that mean? So have we all, one way or another. You do not have any hard data to support your statement. None.

I however, do have real, live, recent examples of BC court house staff lying and fudging documents, officers of the court lying to Supreme Court judges, and Supreme Court judges ignoring Rules of Court and engaging in unprofessional conduct. I have filed a Complaint with the Canadian Judicial Council which provides concrete evidence of this, namely the court's own records.

I'm an ordinary citizen, a party to a civil action, and there is no reason for such widespread egregious behaviour and bias on the part of the judiciary and the court employees such as I have encountered. I'm not the only person who has experienced this. I've been in contact with others who have been treated similarly.

Why is this happening? Fairly simple. When the top person(s) running an organization condone such behaviour or indeed practices it him/herself, then many staff in that organization will begin to exhibit behaviours that are improper – because they can (get away with it).

It doesn't matter whether it is the justice system, Wall Street or Enron. That's human nature, and when there are no controls or no one is interested in ensuring good behaviour, that's when the rot takes hold.

So please GWest, not every "mistake" or screw-up is the result of under-staffing or poorly paid staff. That thinking is just too much like dyed-in-the-wool union-driven socialism for me – and I'm a social justice advocate. Look at the Wall Street debacle that's crippling our global economy. Those organizations didn't lack for people or money, and yet they lied, cheated and ruined people's lives.

It's greed and deceit that is often at the root of these things. And a desire for power.

I'm not saying that there is likely some truth to cutbacks and redesigning of systems that have negative effects. But, that pales in comparison with the corruption in the BC Court system that I have seen for myself.

CC
 

Canadian Canary - and Kootcoot:

I still disagree. There are certainly abuses and I don't mean to minimize the effect on the individuals who have experienced those abuses - or to deny the obvious fact that 'human nature' plays a role in the courts as it does in all human ventures.

But that is a long way from justifying the blanket statement about rife and wholesale corruption in the justice system.

It simply isn't true. As for how I know it isn't true you are simply going to have to take my word for it - I post here anonymously for a reason.

Mary knows my background - if she cares to vouch for it I'm sure she can.

Greed, deceit and the lust for power have a corrosive effect on society - in fact, it's my belief that those very emotions are at the heart of the BASI VIRK trial and the government from which those individuals came. But that is saying something very different from what you wrote.

Even if corruption did play a part in your own personal experiences with the justice system (and that's for the two of you to say) it does not follow that such 'corruption' has permeated the whole of the system.

Even if some elements of the system (and I'd place the perversion of the selection process for special prosecutors in that category) have been tainted by political interference - that does not mean that every special prosecutor is corrupt and on the take. It is a situation which has been permitted to fester for the past decade - but gangrene has not yet set in.

Most, if not all, of the public officials I know who are involved in the justice system (and I do not include the police in that group) are hard-working, ethical and upright individuals who earn their pay, take their jobs seriously and do the very best they can to uphold both the law and the concept of 'justice'.


That's what I wrote, that's what my experience tells me, and that's why I reacted to your comment.

If I'm wrong, and I sincerely do not believe I am, then we are in much worse shape than any of us know.

The simple fact that this case has finally found its way into open court leads me to have at least some confidence in the system and a modicum of hope for the future.

No hard feelings.
 

G. West, if the hanky-panky that goes on with Patrick Dohm, the re-assignment of inconvenient judges, the failure to lay charges when they would be more than appropriate, or to even investigate situations that appear to cry out for investigation, the prosecutor shopping of StoneWally, the entire conflict of interest riddled S.P. process itself, the Kelly Richard case, the failure to charge Monty for multiple killings and on and on doesn't indicate a "justice" system rife with corruption I mis-understand the meaning of the words 'rife' and 'corruption.'

And all that is just in BC, I'm not that impressed with the system at the Fedral Level either......

Then there is when the BC "justice" system was almost over anxious to pursue charges against Bennett and Doman for insider trading - TO SPARE THEM THE RISK OF BEING PROSECUTED IN ONTARIO, where the burden of proof and sanctions would have been much less lenient and favorable for that retired alcoholic cheat, that should be an embarrassment to his father and his father's legacy that Gordo is working so hard to destroy.

I learned long ago that the only justice in the Halls of Justice is in the halls. But the degree of corruption and lack of fairness in the BC Criminal Justice Branch is only matched by countries we consider to be members of the Axis of Evil or in Africa or central Asia and run by in your face, out front DICK TATERS!

This doesn't mean that every clerk and bailiff is corrupt, but corruption from the top corrupts the whole system as CC alluded.
 

Final word(s) on the subject from me:
1. It's not just clerks and bailiffs, there are scores and scores of judges, prosecutors and other staff in the system;
2. Dohm and a few others - and although I have suspicions, they're only suspicions - don't make the case;
3. Neither does your allegations about the police - as I clearly stated in my original comment, I'm not including them. They, and their bosses in the political branch are in real trouble.

Cheers.
 

Then there is when the BC "justice" system was almost over anxious to pursue charges against Bennett and Doman for insider trading - TO SPARE THEM THE RISK OF BEING PROSECUTED IN ONTARIO,

Just an aside about that....the scuttlebutt I heard from some quarters concerned with that was that the whole Doman Scandal was a smokescreen to divert attention from the Bennett family's buy-up of massive amounts of land in the Nicola Valley in advance of the announcement of the highway. Not as glamorous as insider trading, but something very dirty indeed, and worth a lot more on the market (though I don't have a dollar figure on their profit margin....)
 

Hey kootcoot and G West, I've enjoyed the exchange greatly. Good to have such an airing of a subject.

G West, we'll have to agree to disagree with your contention about the justice system, but I can understand why you might feel the way you do.

When you've not had such experience as I have (or, should say 'we have' – as I've said, sadly my case is not unique), then it is hard to imagine just how quickly and easily supposedly highly-respected professionals can become corrupted, and how shockingly low they will stoop. I felt the same way at one time.

Hopefully, in the future, my confidence in BC's systems (judicial, law enforcement, health care, etc.) will be restored. That's what I'm diligently working for, and I sense the same in you.

G'night, CC
 

"2. Dohm and a few others - and although I have suspicions, they're only suspicions - don't make the case;"

Yep G., and in BC suspicions about the "in" crowd remain just that suspicions. As Robin Mathews has demonstrated, it is up to the citizens to PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO THE POLICE, rather than expect the police to investigate allegations, like is done in other jurisdictions that actually have semi-functioning justice systems.

How come there has been no investigation into the destruction of evidence (e-mails from the Premier's office relevant to the BC Rail case, destroyed years after charges were laid, indeed during last year's laughable excuse for an election)? How come Gary Collins was dropped from the investigation just before or after the raid? How come it wasn't considered in the public interest to lay charges against Dobell for wearing too many hats, even though the "oh so" special prosecutor thought there was a reasonable chance for conviction?

How come back when there was a judge on the BC Rail case that actually appeared impartial disclosure orders (that's COURT ORDERS) were routinely ignored by the Campbell regime with no consequences? How often to you G. get to ignore or violate a court order with no consequences?

When I say the system is extremely corrupt, that doesn't mean I think every judge and prosecutor is part of the criminal activity. But with the bad apples conveniently deployed where they can work in the interests of the criminal element, all the apples don't have to be bad. Just as every civil servant and elected official wasn't a part of the ongoing criminal activity of Bush the Lesser and his nanny Dick Cheney, though they were certainly making progress at turning the US Dept. of Justice into anything but a Justice Department thanks to the efforts of so called lawyers like Yoo and Alberto Gonzo and the gang from Liberty Law for Jesus.

You have to at least semi cripple the justice system to operate a government of thieves and liars. But the system has to appear to be functioning, and with the PAB and the minions of the Assperson Empire, it is easy to fool the majority of the populace.

When one considers the cost of 8 1/2 minutes of missing tape to R. M. Nixon and then looks at the free pass Gordo gets for ORDERING EVIDENCE DESTROYED during proceedings, how can one deem a system that allows such behaviour anything but corrupt? And this is not a mere allegation, the woman in charge of information destruction, or sending data to the states for destruction has publically stated what she was ordered to do.

I still agree that under resourcing is part of the problem in the justice system. However I don't think it is incompetence, it is part of a pattern of degrading services of value to normal British Columbians, just like Health Care, Ambulance Service, Game and Park Wardens, Education and almost any government services of value to normal, not connected, citizens of the province.

A corrupt government, made up of an elite bunch of greed bags to serve the same greed bags and their friends REQUIRES a less than honourable justice system to thrive - and as far as I'm concerned they've created one.

BTW, just how "special" is the special prosecutor on John Les' case and just how slow. Or are we now gonna find out that Les couldn't have done anything wrong because improper ALR removals and land zoning irregularities were just the norm in Chilly Whacko!

Like CC, I would like to see my confidence in the BC systems restored, but I'm certainly not going to hold my breath, or count on useless wastes of space like Leonard Krog to help rectify things!
 

Skook, as to:

"the scuttlebutt I heard from some quarters concerned with that was that the whole Doman Scandal was a smokescreen to divert attention from the Bennett family's buy-up of massive amounts of land in the Nicola Valley in advance of the announcement of the highway"

It is my understanding that the practice of the Bennett family and friends benefiting from knowing where the new highways were going to go, goes way back to the days of massive highway building under Flyin' Phil and include many more valleys than the Nicola, especially the Bennett's home valley or Orange County North (the Okanagan Valley)!

The fact remains that Bennett and Doman would have faced much harsher sanctions under Ontario security laws and the BC Justice Branch outdid itself for alarcrity in processing them and making them immune to Ontario thanks to double jeopardy.

I always figured that Bennett and Doman got an extra degree of satisfaction by dumping their soon to be worthless stock on to the teacher's union - because just like the SoCreds in LIEberal clothing we have today, they had no use for public education or especially an educated electorate - which would never vote for them. If the voters were educated enough they would understand their own interests weren't the same as either the SoCreds or their modern stealth version..
 

I totally agree with Kootcoot’s assessment of the BC and Federal legal system.
Only the rich have any access or success in our legal system and the result is not justice.
From a simple speeding ticket in BC, where one is considered guilty until he or she proves himself innocent,( very rare) because the cop that issued the ticket doesn’t have to show up in court to give evidence, to the Guftiston Lake debacle of 20 or so years back where a argument between two old men morphed into a national spectacle of the RCMP running amuck with side looking heat seeking helicopters and Bison Armored vehicles.
The lawyer for the defense in this Guftiston lake thing declared then that the legal system was totally corrupt and the last I heard was in international law in Sweden and Norway.
And we can’t forget the case of a farmer from Saskatchewan , Percy Schmeiser who was growing canola and ran up against the multinational agri thugs Monsanto.
Percy had some cross pollination from a neighbor’s field that was grown from Monsanto seed. He had to defend himself all the way up to the Supreme Court of Canada on something that anyone with even the smallest spec of common sense would have throw in the garbage. So much for our learned jurists in the federal courts. Google his name and the story will pop up.
My point is that anyone who has experienced the legal system first hand is more than a little jaded.
The BC Rail case is no exception.
CGHZD
 

For cryin' out loud, CGHZD,

we gotta get tougher than this!!

So the BCSC didn't list the BCRail Trial until it was too late to attend. Yes, it's sloppy, careless, and disrespectful.

But does it stop us from phoning the numbers shown at left on your screen? No. No, it doesn't stop us from phoning, finding out the time for the trial to begin, and for showing up to attend, make notes, and report.

It worries me no end, whenever people dive into despondency and then submit to this stuff. That's not why I post information here. I post it so that people if there's a problem, people can deal it, overcome it, get past the problem, and know what it feels like to be winners.

Winners! Not losers ... OK?
.