Friday, December 31, 2010
Ben Meisner says: "Never mind Basi and Virk, the tragedy occurred when we gave the dam railway away to CN who held a big party in Arkansas the night the sale went through and stuck their fingers in the air towards us. Long before was when we needed you people."
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BC Mary comment: Ben Meisner wrote a passionate editorial dated Dec. 30, 2010, on his news service -- Opinion 250 -- from Prince George. The next day, Ben let off some more steam and I'm very glad he did. I loved hearing what this seasoned journalist had to say; I hope he'll write more like this ... because ... (hangs head, scuffs toe) ... I didn't know. I had wondered, but didn't have an inkling of the great battle he undertook to save BC Rail. How many working journalists today would get out and fight the good fight this way, in the public interest? I wrote to Ben asking permission to publish his remarks here on The Legislature Raids. Here is his reply. A tip o'the tuque to Ben Meisner for the generous position he took, with regard to BC Rail; I'll add another version of his story because of the information it contains; same with those other northern comments which I'll include at the end. Thanks, Ben.
Mary; These are the kind of E-mails I get, along with my reply, you can print this.
- Ben Meisner
To which Ben replied:
Are you crazy; Mayor Colin Kinsley supported the sale, I sure as hell didn’t. On my own dime, I went from city to city and town to town (while everyone else in the lower mainland, save a very few, were sitting on their hands), telling people [they] were being screwed and how that was taking place.
Problem was other than the mayor of Squamish, BC Mary, Bill Tielman, Peter Ewart and Ron East, who came on board with us to protest the sale and try to bring out the facts, no one else rushed out to support us.
I believe now as I believed then, that the sale was set up in such a way to make the railway look like it was losing money.
The Premier's principal secretary, Mike Morton, even hired some people to phone in on my talk show to say the sale was a good one; they tried to set me up on numerous occasions. That came out in court testimony.
Finally when the trial came about, a few people like Bill Tielman and BC Mary saw the writing on the wall and began to report on it. At the time I said when I interviewed Tielman, on lots of occasions, that this trial will never see the light of day, it will be buried. He still owes me the beer from the bet.
I don't mind for a moment people climbing on my frame, but BC rail, you people who even ask the question about where I was in the sale, show me that you either didn't know or didn't care what was going on.
Never mind Basi and Virk, the tragedy occurred when we gave the dam railway away to CN who held a big party in Arkansas the night the sale went through and stuck their fingers in the air towards us. Long before was when we needed you people.
But we had another election and again you sat on your hands and the issue did not become a major political issue.
Ten years later we finally get some traction on the issue and the 604 finally woke up and smelled the coffee because a trial was about to start.
As for Mayor Kinsley, he never would come on the air with me over the BC Rail sale and you people have the Gaul to say I supported the sale of BC rail..........whoa.
One more thought now that you have me going. The shippers got a 5% break on freight to get them to support the sale, which they did. Now they are mad because CN isn't delivering the cars on time, they got exactly what they wanted, CN.
What bothers the hell out of me is that the issue became public about 11 years ago... and people in the lower part of the province are now just getting around to asking questions, about how we were had, quite apart from the trial.
I often read some comments about me and shake my head in disbelief, again asking the question, where were you people when we needed you.
Suddenly I wonder if it’s all about getting elected , rather than trying to right a wrong.
Ben Meisner
__________________________
And another explosive explanation ...
By Ben Meisner
Thursday, December 30, 2010
Would MLA John Rustad (or whoever speaks for the MLA) have the courage of conviction to answer these questions?
Rustad says investments at the Port of Prince Rupert would never have been made without the sale of BC rail, nor would the loading facilities have been built in Prince George to handle returning traffic.
Now this may come as a surprise to Mr Rustad (or whoever) but CN has been the only railway to have a line into Prince Rupert, “ever”.
That rail line has been in existence since 1919.
The Port Of Prince Rupert is, for your information Mr Rustad, “A Crown Corporation”, a not for profit corporation. That's the one you say would never have been built if not for the sale of BC Rail.
The deep sea port expansion was built by the “Crown Corporation” to break into the overseas market for containers because Prince Rupert is a day’s sailing closer to the west coast from China.
CN services the port because they are the only game in Prince Rupert and the only game in northern BC, remember you sold ( or should I say "leased") the competition.
Now do you think they are there because they owe the people of BC some sort of gift for the fact that they stole BC rail in a sale, or are they perhaps there because they want to make money?
So now that we have established that BC Rail never had a track within 483 miles of Prince Rupert, how you can suggest that the Port Of Prince Rupert would never have had investments taxes the mind.
CN was, and is, the only game in town in Prince Rupert.
Now did BC Rail ever have a rail line running from Prince George to Jasper? No.
Did BC rail ever have a rail line running between Jasper, Alberta and Oh....? Chicago? No.
Did CN have a rail service running to Chicago? Yes indeed, they have since in the late 1920’s.
Now let’s just talk a bit local.
The container facility built in Prince George was to accommodate container shipments moving back from the east to China via Prince George.
The idea for the shipping companies is simple; if you can fill up the containers on the return trip you make more money.
If CN can get those containers full they can charge more for the back haul, and both the container company and CN make more money.
Now indeed there is a planned expansion of that facility. Do you think that was brought about by (a) more back haul shipments, or (b) CN wanting to do something for the region because they got such a good deal on the purchase of BC Rail. Or (c) the tooth Fairy.
If anyone has any doubt as to why the people of the province want a full blown inquiry into the sale of BC rail regardless of the cost, look no further than the kind of remarks we are furnished with from MLA John Rustad as to why selling BC rail was such a great idea.
It may have been a great idea, but for whom?
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.
Read more HERE.
http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/18842/1/one+more+time+on+the+benefits+of+selling+bc+rail?
Impassioned, informed comments followed Ben Meisner's article:
Posted by Socredible on December 30 2010
Would have been better if THOSE aspects of the situation had been examined in a 'public inquiry' BEFORE the sale of BC Rail.
If WE, the People, were supposed to be its ultimate 'owners', even though the Crown through the BC Government acts as a Trustee for our ownership, then such a pre-sale 'public inquiry' would have been the equivalent of a 'special shareholder's meeting' in a private Company.
One could well imagine what would happen where any private railway company's top management tried to sell the company based on information only THEY had about future prospects. AND HOW TO BEST BENEFIT THEMSELVES to the exclusion of benefit to the shareholders, and acted on that information without first disseminating it to the 'shareholders' at large.
After those 'shareholders' subsequently found out that the sale had been made at probably something less than what their company was really worth, there'd be lawsuits galore. And in all likelihood they'd be successful.
But what recourse are we left with in this situation? Certainly we can vote that 'top management' out of office when we've the opportunity, but that really doesn't properly redress the situation.
At the very least, if WE were supposed to be the ultimate 'owners' of this Crown corporation, WE, each and every British Columbia citizen at the time of its disposition, should've received an equal share of the proceeds.
Likely as not we can't do anything about that now, short of dismissing the 'wrecking crew'. But we should certainly DEMAND that any FURTHER 'privatisations' of any Crown corporation or government 'operating' assets of this nature be subject to public inquiry FIRST, and if approved, the sale proceeds are returned directly to the real 'shareholders' equitably.
There are a number of issues surrounding the sale of BC Rail and the Port of Prince Rupert.
We can argue the pros and cons of selling BC Rail, however we will never be able to make a case for selling it to CN Rail. If it had to be sold, it should have been sold to CP Rail, or the Burlington Northern Railway, so that we could continue to have some rail competition in the North. As it now stands CN Rail is the only game in town.
When we talk about BC Ports we should keep in mind that the Port of Prince Rupert and the Port of Vancouver (On BC Rail lines) are equidistant from Prince George. So in terms of logistics, it matters little to industry in Prince George which Port they use as long as the freight rates are competitive.
People in Prince George have this mindset that somehow Pr Rupert is a better Port for this area than Vancouver, when in fact the exact opposite is true. At this point in time Containers loaded to Prince Rupert go to one destination only ie; China. When product is shipped to Vancouver Port it can basically go anywhere in the world, Japan, China, Europe, India, etc; So the Port of Vancouver in much more diversified.
While it is true that the sailing time from China to Pr Rupert is one day shorter, once the ship unloads in Pr Rupert it then goes to Vancouver, and then to a US Port before it returns to China, so in effect the one day saved at Pr Rupert is lost to Vancouver and say Portland/Seattle, so the overall transit route would not necessarily be more beneficial from a Transportation point of view. There would certainly be some benefits in Prince Rupert in regards to congestion, and train service to the US East Coast, and I suspect that this is the real reason they built the Container Port in Prince Rupert.
The pulp and lumber loaded in Prince George is the same product that would be loaded into Containers in Vancouver if the Rupert Port had not been built. The thing people should keep in mind is that although we are using a different Port (Pr Rupert) we are shipping the same commodities, so overall there is no increase in production, and therefore no new jobs. In fact one could make a strong case for actually losing jobs because of less trucking to Vancouver to stuff containers, and therefore less mechanical repairs, new truck sales, truck driving jobs, tire sales, restaurant meals, fuel sales etc;. You don't get any of these benefits from a Railway.
The people who benefit the most from the Port of Prince Rupert, are:
1. The City of Prince Rupert,
2. COSCO Shipping Co.
3. CN Rail
4. Maher Terminals
These people all invested in the project and they will get some benefits, however there [are] absolutely no benefits to the City of Prince George.
The fact that CN Rail purchased BC Rail has in fact decreased the train service from Prince George to Vancouver via BC Rail, and in fact I suspect that it has been decreased by over 50% since the purchase. All lumber going to the USA now comes through Prince George, and I believe that all pulp and Paper is taken on the CN Lines to Jasper, and then down to Vancouver, so there has been a dramatic decrease in traffic South on BC Rail, with the attendant loss of jobs etc;.
So in effect we have lost a competitive railway to the Port of Vancouver, we have a decrease in traffic South on BC Rail to the point where one would wonder how long they will actually maintain the track South of 100 Mile, we are now operating under a CN Rail monopoly which is not good for business in this area.
The completion of the Panama Canal expansion in 2013/14 will have a huge effect on Container traffic on the West Coast and there will be fierce competition for whatever Container traffic is available. Can Pr Rupert survive after Panama? Who knows. One should keep in mind that Maher Terminals' (the people who built the Pr Rupert container facilities), main container handling Ports are on the East Coast (New Jersey) and once the Panama opens up, it would be in their best interests to have these ships unload on the East Coast.
Time will tell.
Posted by: Eagleone on December 31 2010
John (TILMA) Rustad is the guy that worked in the shadows to 'harmonize' the sovereignty of BC away to the lowest common denominator for investment, environmental, and labor regulations. Selling BC Rail in a corrupted process is par for the course for a guy that cares little about BC sovereignty and views monopoly capitalism as akin to a religion.
The strangest thing to me is that the riding he represents has none of the mega corporations... it's a riding of independent farmers, loggers, small business, and sustainable development type folks... yet they buy the line that they have to vote liberal for free enterprise and in the process vote for a guy that really stands for monopoly capitalism. Of all the ridings in BC it might be the best example of one that should support independents, but yet they support one of the biggest party yes men in the entire province. The only explanation is ignorance of politics by the voters in that riding... a people who vote based on name recognition and party platitudes, rather than actual policy and track records.
As for BC Rail... its gone, we could never rebuild the rolling stock and the business without huge costs. A huge crime. But we still own the tracks and BC should simply make them open tracks maintained by an independent crown corporation. Allow CP and Burlington Northern, or CN, or anyone else including Canfor themselves to operate their own trains on that line for a per-mile usage fee... open it right up to free enterprise competition and let the industry in the north benefit from the competition and lower shipping rates.
As for the BC liberal party... they didn't pay a $6 million dollar bribe to convicted criminals to shut down the BC Rail trial without a good reason. They have skeletons in their closet and everyone in the province knows this.
A full independent inquiry should be done and if wrong-doing is documented through discovery, then Elections BC should ban the BC liberals as a party from the next election just like what Elections BC did to the reform party for a much much smaller offense.
Perjury punishable by a loss of accreditation to run in the election. In BC the ndp have never, and never will be the majority... so what would likely happen is a couple of parties would benefit from homeless voters much the same as the BC liberals did when the 26% that supported reform BC lost their vote... the end result could be a minority government in BC that we so desperately need to restore the principles of democracy... even if it was an ndp minority government.
Posted by: Eagleone on December 31 2010
If the BC liberals were banned from the next election for perjury... then existing BC liberal MLA's and candidates would have to run under a different party. And that would be the absolute best thing that could ever happen to BC... dismantles the mafia control from the top and reasserts primacy of the MLA over the party structure. Plus, not all would agree on the same 'new party' so some might opt for a far right, while others might opt for a more centrist approach... in the end we would have a truly multi-party parliamentary system again.
Of course that is if people truly believed that Elections BC was actually independent and a watch dog for the sanctity of the democratic process in BC... namely the right for people to know what they are voting for through truthful and honest policy debates at election time... as well as above board open transparency to follow the democratic protocols between elections.
If BC wants to blame anyone for the criminal nature of our politics in this province than Election BC is the one that should take most of the blame IMO.
________________________________
Posted by: socredible on December 31 2010
It's a nice notion, banning the Liberal Party, Eagle. But like the man said, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Only in this case, a skunk's piss would stink just as bad even if you called him a polecat.
Posted by: BC Mary on December 30 2010
Ben Meisner, Socredible, Palopu ... thanks for valuable information, much needed as we [sigh ... !] hammer one another in the good ol' democratic traditions, trying to figure out IF ... for cryin' out loud ... IF we really need to have a Public Inquiry into the criminal negotiations which led to the loss of a huge public asset.
And bid-rigging is a crime under the Criminal Code of Canada. So is offering bribes, as well as accepting bribes.
It beats me, how anybody can feel OK about having a major public asset stolen, then shrug it off as being too much trouble to put things straight again.
I'd like to correct where Socredible says that "Likely as not we can't do anything about that now, short of dismissing the 'wrecking crew' ..."
There are reposession clauses built into one of the BCR-CN deals which, on its 5th anniversary -- July 14, 2009 -- stipulated that the government of BC could re-possess BCRail if certain agreed points weren't fulfilled.
Unfulfilled promises such as the upkeep of existing trackage, and CN's promise to replace 600 BCR rail cars with new ones. Both these items were unfulfilled legal agreements ... in other words, deal-breakers.
My group tried to activate the Opposition Justice Critic -- Leonard Krog -- to no avail ... in fact, he stonewalled us, then held a Vancouver press conference and took credit for the idea.
All I'm saying is that re-possession isn't a futile dream. It can be done. Start early and keep trying.
Happy New Year, everyone.
Posted by: Eagleone on December 31 2010
That may be so socredible, but they would all be tarred and feathered and may not all want to hang out together sharing the same ignominious distinction. To create a new party they would have to create a new platform and set of polic[ies]... and for this they would have to have input from a wider circle of people than currently run the show... and in this one defuses this power structure even if only temporary.
Politicians would think twice before ever wanting to rebuild like that again in the future. Why is a political party held sacred? Shouldn't the process be about the people we elect? Perjury in politics (especially from unaccountable party insiders) would then be seen as the crime that it is, and the punishment would be well known by all the actors in the political scene... honesty would then again have a chance to survive in politics, and people would then again have faith in the value of voting.
Leaving it to the voter like when the liberals came to power and the ndp were wiped out as a recognized political party leaves the province vulnerable to dictatorship, which is exactly what Elections BC set BC up for when it banned the reform party and left alone the real criminals of perjury (ndp, in the 90's) that the people wanted gone. Had Elections BC banned the ndp instead for perjury (ie fudget budget) we might have seen them form new groups, some of which would have went centrist, and we would have a viable option to Gordon Campbell... possibly a minority government... and he would not have had his free ride to dictator powers that he did.
Elections BC has done everything they can going out of their way to enable the corporatist agenda of Gordon Campbell and nothing to protect the sanctity of democracy in BC.
Perjury in politics should not be rewarded with impunity. Perjury in politics should be punishable by banishment from the trade. There has to be accountability for perjury otherwise democracy is dead.
To promise not to sell BC Rail, not to privatize BC Hydro, not to privatize BC Ferries, not to bring in the HST, and to say one has a balanced budget for an election when in fact its a two billion dollar deficit... those are all acts of perjury to the voter for ill gotten political gain, and that undermines the whole political relevance of democracy. That has to be regulated to end the corruption, or we simply do not have a democracy anymore.
BC Mary comment: And then there was one more blast from Ben Meisner. This was his message to a challenger, one day earlier. I love it! Happy New Year, Ben!
Subject: Re: BC Rail and rigged radio calls
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010
When I first had a sniff that BC Rail was being sold, I began an investigation as to how the government of the day was lying on the matter, having said they wouldn't sell the railway.
It was then and still is my contention that the railway was put into a position to lose money and the government was then able to say they had to sell it.
That was nine years ago. When the railway was sold, [I] went on a
speaking tour, on my own dime, of the areas affected by the sale, criticizing the government and trying to get political support, demanding that a hearing be held into how they cobbled this thing together. I also at the same time interviewed anyone who would listen that we in the province were selling out our heritage much less giving CN a railway that was worth several billions of dollars, all along saying it was just a lease.
I interviewed people in Arkansas when Hunter Harrison [CEO of CN] held a
party to announce that CN had bought the railway, it was a sad day indeed and he was so happy that CN was about to
make a bunch of money.
I got into many arguments on the radio with the various ministers who tried to feed me the BS that the railway was
losing money and they had to do it. They tried to set me up on numerous occasions, not just the one mentioned in the court records.
I am very aware of the fact that Mike Morton of the Premier's office paid some people to make phone calls to me on the
air suggesting the sale was a good idea. That is no different than when Glen Clark did the same thing by hiring someone to phone my program during an election. I simply don't trust any politician no matter what stripe. Read the court records of the NDP and how they said we want to take
out Meisner.
{Snip} ...
Had you taken time to listen to my program the day you were trying to give me the heat, you would have heard an
interview that I did with Christy Clark in which I said that the people of this province would gladly pay 30 Million
for a public hearing, rather than allow people like her to sweep this whole issue under the table. I still support the
notion of a full blown inquiry. {Snip} ...
I don't know whether we ever will be able to get to hear the full story about the involvement by the government in the
CN deal. They try and suggest that campaign contributions do not affect decisions that they make, I don't believe
that for a moment. {Snip} ...
Ask any party leader that has ever held
political office in this province and you will be told, that I don't have any favourites. I trust them all in an equal manner, very little.
If anyone has fought for BC rail and continues to do so, you will find with a little digging it was me, ask any BC rail employee, anyone with a bit of knowledge and they will tell you that I still haven't given up. {Snip} ...
Ben Meisner
BC Mary comment: Ben Meisner wrote a passionate editorial dated Dec. 30, 2010, on his news service -- Opinion 250 -- from Prince George. The next day, Ben let off some more steam and I'm very glad he did. I loved hearing what this seasoned journalist had to say; I hope he'll write more like this ... because ... (hangs head, scuffs toe) ... I didn't know. I had wondered, but didn't have an inkling of the great battle he undertook to save BC Rail. How many working journalists today would get out and fight the good fight this way, in the public interest? I wrote to Ben asking permission to publish his remarks here on The Legislature Raids. Here is his reply. A tip o'the tuque to Ben Meisner for the generous position he took, with regard to BC Rail; I'll add another version of his story because of the information it contains; same with those other northern comments which I'll include at the end. Thanks, Ben.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mary; These are the kind of E-mails I get, along with my reply, you can print this.
- Ben Meisner
Just wondering what your opinion on the BC Rail Scandal and your participation in the sale? Could you brief me on what happened on your talk show during and the sale? I have read some disturbing info that seems to indicate you and some others in Prince George, notably the Mayor at the time, assisted the Gordon Campbell government in the cover-up and the implications to the shippers? Is this true?
To which Ben replied:
Are you crazy; Mayor Colin Kinsley supported the sale, I sure as hell didn’t. On my own dime, I went from city to city and town to town (while everyone else in the lower mainland, save a very few, were sitting on their hands), telling people [they] were being screwed and how that was taking place.
Problem was other than the mayor of Squamish, BC Mary, Bill Tielman, Peter Ewart and Ron East, who came on board with us to protest the sale and try to bring out the facts, no one else rushed out to support us.
I believe now as I believed then, that the sale was set up in such a way to make the railway look like it was losing money.
The Premier's principal secretary, Mike Morton, even hired some people to phone in on my talk show to say the sale was a good one; they tried to set me up on numerous occasions. That came out in court testimony.
Finally when the trial came about, a few people like Bill Tielman and BC Mary saw the writing on the wall and began to report on it. At the time I said when I interviewed Tielman, on lots of occasions, that this trial will never see the light of day, it will be buried. He still owes me the beer from the bet.
I don't mind for a moment people climbing on my frame, but BC rail, you people who even ask the question about where I was in the sale, show me that you either didn't know or didn't care what was going on.
Never mind Basi and Virk, the tragedy occurred when we gave the dam railway away to CN who held a big party in Arkansas the night the sale went through and stuck their fingers in the air towards us. Long before was when we needed you people.
But we had another election and again you sat on your hands and the issue did not become a major political issue.
Ten years later we finally get some traction on the issue and the 604 finally woke up and smelled the coffee because a trial was about to start.
As for Mayor Kinsley, he never would come on the air with me over the BC Rail sale and you people have the Gaul to say I supported the sale of BC rail..........whoa.
One more thought now that you have me going. The shippers got a 5% break on freight to get them to support the sale, which they did. Now they are mad because CN isn't delivering the cars on time, they got exactly what they wanted, CN.
What bothers the hell out of me is that the issue became public about 11 years ago... and people in the lower part of the province are now just getting around to asking questions, about how we were had, quite apart from the trial.
I often read some comments about me and shake my head in disbelief, again asking the question, where were you people when we needed you.
Suddenly I wonder if it’s all about getting elected , rather than trying to right a wrong.
Ben Meisner
__________________________
And another explosive explanation ...
One More Time On The 'Benefits' Of Selling BC Rail
By Ben Meisner
Thursday, December 30, 2010
Would MLA John Rustad (or whoever speaks for the MLA) have the courage of conviction to answer these questions?
Rustad says investments at the Port of Prince Rupert would never have been made without the sale of BC rail, nor would the loading facilities have been built in Prince George to handle returning traffic.
Now this may come as a surprise to Mr Rustad (or whoever) but CN has been the only railway to have a line into Prince Rupert, “ever”.
That rail line has been in existence since 1919.
The Port Of Prince Rupert is, for your information Mr Rustad, “A Crown Corporation”, a not for profit corporation. That's the one you say would never have been built if not for the sale of BC Rail.
The deep sea port expansion was built by the “Crown Corporation” to break into the overseas market for containers because Prince Rupert is a day’s sailing closer to the west coast from China.
CN services the port because they are the only game in Prince Rupert and the only game in northern BC, remember you sold ( or should I say "leased") the competition.
Now do you think they are there because they owe the people of BC some sort of gift for the fact that they stole BC rail in a sale, or are they perhaps there because they want to make money?
So now that we have established that BC Rail never had a track within 483 miles of Prince Rupert, how you can suggest that the Port Of Prince Rupert would never have had investments taxes the mind.
CN was, and is, the only game in town in Prince Rupert.
Now did BC Rail ever have a rail line running from Prince George to Jasper? No.
Did BC rail ever have a rail line running between Jasper, Alberta and Oh....? Chicago? No.
Did CN have a rail service running to Chicago? Yes indeed, they have since in the late 1920’s.
Now let’s just talk a bit local.
The container facility built in Prince George was to accommodate container shipments moving back from the east to China via Prince George.
The idea for the shipping companies is simple; if you can fill up the containers on the return trip you make more money.
If CN can get those containers full they can charge more for the back haul, and both the container company and CN make more money.
Now indeed there is a planned expansion of that facility. Do you think that was brought about by (a) more back haul shipments, or (b) CN wanting to do something for the region because they got such a good deal on the purchase of BC Rail. Or (c) the tooth Fairy.
If anyone has any doubt as to why the people of the province want a full blown inquiry into the sale of BC rail regardless of the cost, look no further than the kind of remarks we are furnished with from MLA John Rustad as to why selling BC rail was such a great idea.
It may have been a great idea, but for whom?
I’m Meisner and that’s one man’s opinion.
Read more HERE.
http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/18842/1/one+more+time+on+the+benefits+of+selling+bc+rail?
________________________________
Impassioned, informed comments followed Ben Meisner's article:
Posted by Socredible on December 30 2010
Would have been better if THOSE aspects of the situation had been examined in a 'public inquiry' BEFORE the sale of BC Rail.
If WE, the People, were supposed to be its ultimate 'owners', even though the Crown through the BC Government acts as a Trustee for our ownership, then such a pre-sale 'public inquiry' would have been the equivalent of a 'special shareholder's meeting' in a private Company.
One could well imagine what would happen where any private railway company's top management tried to sell the company based on information only THEY had about future prospects. AND HOW TO BEST BENEFIT THEMSELVES to the exclusion of benefit to the shareholders, and acted on that information without first disseminating it to the 'shareholders' at large.
After those 'shareholders' subsequently found out that the sale had been made at probably something less than what their company was really worth, there'd be lawsuits galore. And in all likelihood they'd be successful.
But what recourse are we left with in this situation? Certainly we can vote that 'top management' out of office when we've the opportunity, but that really doesn't properly redress the situation.
At the very least, if WE were supposed to be the ultimate 'owners' of this Crown corporation, WE, each and every British Columbia citizen at the time of its disposition, should've received an equal share of the proceeds.
Likely as not we can't do anything about that now, short of dismissing the 'wrecking crew'. But we should certainly DEMAND that any FURTHER 'privatisations' of any Crown corporation or government 'operating' assets of this nature be subject to public inquiry FIRST, and if approved, the sale proceeds are returned directly to the real 'shareholders' equitably.
___________________________
Posted by: Palopu on December 30, 2010
We can argue the pros and cons of selling BC Rail, however we will never be able to make a case for selling it to CN Rail. If it had to be sold, it should have been sold to CP Rail, or the Burlington Northern Railway, so that we could continue to have some rail competition in the North. As it now stands CN Rail is the only game in town.
When we talk about BC Ports we should keep in mind that the Port of Prince Rupert and the Port of Vancouver (On BC Rail lines) are equidistant from Prince George. So in terms of logistics, it matters little to industry in Prince George which Port they use as long as the freight rates are competitive.
People in Prince George have this mindset that somehow Pr Rupert is a better Port for this area than Vancouver, when in fact the exact opposite is true. At this point in time Containers loaded to Prince Rupert go to one destination only ie; China. When product is shipped to Vancouver Port it can basically go anywhere in the world, Japan, China, Europe, India, etc; So the Port of Vancouver in much more diversified.
While it is true that the sailing time from China to Pr Rupert is one day shorter, once the ship unloads in Pr Rupert it then goes to Vancouver, and then to a US Port before it returns to China, so in effect the one day saved at Pr Rupert is lost to Vancouver and say Portland/Seattle, so the overall transit route would not necessarily be more beneficial from a Transportation point of view. There would certainly be some benefits in Prince Rupert in regards to congestion, and train service to the US East Coast, and I suspect that this is the real reason they built the Container Port in Prince Rupert.
The pulp and lumber loaded in Prince George is the same product that would be loaded into Containers in Vancouver if the Rupert Port had not been built. The thing people should keep in mind is that although we are using a different Port (Pr Rupert) we are shipping the same commodities, so overall there is no increase in production, and therefore no new jobs. In fact one could make a strong case for actually losing jobs because of less trucking to Vancouver to stuff containers, and therefore less mechanical repairs, new truck sales, truck driving jobs, tire sales, restaurant meals, fuel sales etc;. You don't get any of these benefits from a Railway.
The people who benefit the most from the Port of Prince Rupert, are:
1. The City of Prince Rupert,
2. COSCO Shipping Co.
3. CN Rail
4. Maher Terminals
These people all invested in the project and they will get some benefits, however there [are] absolutely no benefits to the City of Prince George.
The fact that CN Rail purchased BC Rail has in fact decreased the train service from Prince George to Vancouver via BC Rail, and in fact I suspect that it has been decreased by over 50% since the purchase. All lumber going to the USA now comes through Prince George, and I believe that all pulp and Paper is taken on the CN Lines to Jasper, and then down to Vancouver, so there has been a dramatic decrease in traffic South on BC Rail, with the attendant loss of jobs etc;.
So in effect we have lost a competitive railway to the Port of Vancouver, we have a decrease in traffic South on BC Rail to the point where one would wonder how long they will actually maintain the track South of 100 Mile, we are now operating under a CN Rail monopoly which is not good for business in this area.
The completion of the Panama Canal expansion in 2013/14 will have a huge effect on Container traffic on the West Coast and there will be fierce competition for whatever Container traffic is available. Can Pr Rupert survive after Panama? Who knows. One should keep in mind that Maher Terminals' (the people who built the Pr Rupert container facilities), main container handling Ports are on the East Coast (New Jersey) and once the Panama opens up, it would be in their best interests to have these ships unload on the East Coast.
Time will tell.
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Posted by: Eagleone on December 31 2010
John (TILMA) Rustad is the guy that worked in the shadows to 'harmonize' the sovereignty of BC away to the lowest common denominator for investment, environmental, and labor regulations. Selling BC Rail in a corrupted process is par for the course for a guy that cares little about BC sovereignty and views monopoly capitalism as akin to a religion.
The strangest thing to me is that the riding he represents has none of the mega corporations... it's a riding of independent farmers, loggers, small business, and sustainable development type folks... yet they buy the line that they have to vote liberal for free enterprise and in the process vote for a guy that really stands for monopoly capitalism. Of all the ridings in BC it might be the best example of one that should support independents, but yet they support one of the biggest party yes men in the entire province. The only explanation is ignorance of politics by the voters in that riding... a people who vote based on name recognition and party platitudes, rather than actual policy and track records.
As for BC Rail... its gone, we could never rebuild the rolling stock and the business without huge costs. A huge crime. But we still own the tracks and BC should simply make them open tracks maintained by an independent crown corporation. Allow CP and Burlington Northern, or CN, or anyone else including Canfor themselves to operate their own trains on that line for a per-mile usage fee... open it right up to free enterprise competition and let the industry in the north benefit from the competition and lower shipping rates.
As for the BC liberal party... they didn't pay a $6 million dollar bribe to convicted criminals to shut down the BC Rail trial without a good reason. They have skeletons in their closet and everyone in the province knows this.
A full independent inquiry should be done and if wrong-doing is documented through discovery, then Elections BC should ban the BC liberals as a party from the next election just like what Elections BC did to the reform party for a much much smaller offense.
Perjury punishable by a loss of accreditation to run in the election. In BC the ndp have never, and never will be the majority... so what would likely happen is a couple of parties would benefit from homeless voters much the same as the BC liberals did when the 26% that supported reform BC lost their vote... the end result could be a minority government in BC that we so desperately need to restore the principles of democracy... even if it was an ndp minority government.
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Posted by: Eagleone on December 31 2010
If the BC liberals were banned from the next election for perjury... then existing BC liberal MLA's and candidates would have to run under a different party. And that would be the absolute best thing that could ever happen to BC... dismantles the mafia control from the top and reasserts primacy of the MLA over the party structure. Plus, not all would agree on the same 'new party' so some might opt for a far right, while others might opt for a more centrist approach... in the end we would have a truly multi-party parliamentary system again.
Of course that is if people truly believed that Elections BC was actually independent and a watch dog for the sanctity of the democratic process in BC... namely the right for people to know what they are voting for through truthful and honest policy debates at election time... as well as above board open transparency to follow the democratic protocols between elections.
If BC wants to blame anyone for the criminal nature of our politics in this province than Election BC is the one that should take most of the blame IMO.
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Posted by: socredible on December 31 2010
It's a nice notion, banning the Liberal Party, Eagle. But like the man said, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Only in this case, a skunk's piss would stink just as bad even if you called him a polecat.
______________________________
Posted by: BC Mary on December 30 2010
Ben Meisner, Socredible, Palopu ... thanks for valuable information, much needed as we [sigh ... !] hammer one another in the good ol' democratic traditions, trying to figure out IF ... for cryin' out loud ... IF we really need to have a Public Inquiry into the criminal negotiations which led to the loss of a huge public asset.
And bid-rigging is a crime under the Criminal Code of Canada. So is offering bribes, as well as accepting bribes.
It beats me, how anybody can feel OK about having a major public asset stolen, then shrug it off as being too much trouble to put things straight again.
I'd like to correct where Socredible says that "Likely as not we can't do anything about that now, short of dismissing the 'wrecking crew' ..."
There are reposession clauses built into one of the BCR-CN deals which, on its 5th anniversary -- July 14, 2009 -- stipulated that the government of BC could re-possess BCRail if certain agreed points weren't fulfilled.
Unfulfilled promises such as the upkeep of existing trackage, and CN's promise to replace 600 BCR rail cars with new ones. Both these items were unfulfilled legal agreements ... in other words, deal-breakers.
My group tried to activate the Opposition Justice Critic -- Leonard Krog -- to no avail ... in fact, he stonewalled us, then held a Vancouver press conference and took credit for the idea.
All I'm saying is that re-possession isn't a futile dream. It can be done. Start early and keep trying.
Happy New Year, everyone.
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Posted by: Eagleone on December 31 2010
That may be so socredible, but they would all be tarred and feathered and may not all want to hang out together sharing the same ignominious distinction. To create a new party they would have to create a new platform and set of polic[ies]... and for this they would have to have input from a wider circle of people than currently run the show... and in this one defuses this power structure even if only temporary.
Politicians would think twice before ever wanting to rebuild like that again in the future. Why is a political party held sacred? Shouldn't the process be about the people we elect? Perjury in politics (especially from unaccountable party insiders) would then be seen as the crime that it is, and the punishment would be well known by all the actors in the political scene... honesty would then again have a chance to survive in politics, and people would then again have faith in the value of voting.
Leaving it to the voter like when the liberals came to power and the ndp were wiped out as a recognized political party leaves the province vulnerable to dictatorship, which is exactly what Elections BC set BC up for when it banned the reform party and left alone the real criminals of perjury (ndp, in the 90's) that the people wanted gone. Had Elections BC banned the ndp instead for perjury (ie fudget budget) we might have seen them form new groups, some of which would have went centrist, and we would have a viable option to Gordon Campbell... possibly a minority government... and he would not have had his free ride to dictator powers that he did.
Elections BC has done everything they can going out of their way to enable the corporatist agenda of Gordon Campbell and nothing to protect the sanctity of democracy in BC.
Perjury in politics should not be rewarded with impunity. Perjury in politics should be punishable by banishment from the trade. There has to be accountability for perjury otherwise democracy is dead.
To promise not to sell BC Rail, not to privatize BC Hydro, not to privatize BC Ferries, not to bring in the HST, and to say one has a balanced budget for an election when in fact its a two billion dollar deficit... those are all acts of perjury to the voter for ill gotten political gain, and that undermines the whole political relevance of democracy. That has to be regulated to end the corruption, or we simply do not have a democracy anymore.
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BC Mary comment: And then there was one more blast from Ben Meisner. This was his message to a challenger, one day earlier. I love it! Happy New Year, Ben!
Subject: Re: BC Rail and rigged radio calls
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010
When I first had a sniff that BC Rail was being sold, I began an investigation as to how the government of the day was lying on the matter, having said they wouldn't sell the railway.
It was then and still is my contention that the railway was put into a position to lose money and the government was then able to say they had to sell it.
That was nine years ago. When the railway was sold, [I] went on a
speaking tour, on my own dime, of the areas affected by the sale, criticizing the government and trying to get political support, demanding that a hearing be held into how they cobbled this thing together. I also at the same time interviewed anyone who would listen that we in the province were selling out our heritage much less giving CN a railway that was worth several billions of dollars, all along saying it was just a lease.
I interviewed people in Arkansas when Hunter Harrison [CEO of CN] held a
party to announce that CN had bought the railway, it was a sad day indeed and he was so happy that CN was about to
make a bunch of money.
I got into many arguments on the radio with the various ministers who tried to feed me the BS that the railway was
losing money and they had to do it. They tried to set me up on numerous occasions, not just the one mentioned in the court records.
I am very aware of the fact that Mike Morton of the Premier's office paid some people to make phone calls to me on the
air suggesting the sale was a good idea. That is no different than when Glen Clark did the same thing by hiring someone to phone my program during an election. I simply don't trust any politician no matter what stripe. Read the court records of the NDP and how they said we want to take
out Meisner.
{Snip} ...
Had you taken time to listen to my program the day you were trying to give me the heat, you would have heard an
interview that I did with Christy Clark in which I said that the people of this province would gladly pay 30 Million
for a public hearing, rather than allow people like her to sweep this whole issue under the table. I still support the
notion of a full blown inquiry. {Snip} ...
I don't know whether we ever will be able to get to hear the full story about the involvement by the government in the
CN deal. They try and suggest that campaign contributions do not affect decisions that they make, I don't believe
that for a moment. {Snip} ...
Ask any party leader that has ever held
political office in this province and you will be told, that I don't have any favourites. I trust them all in an equal manner, very little.
If anyone has fought for BC rail and continues to do so, you will find with a little digging it was me, ask any BC rail employee, anyone with a bit of knowledge and they will tell you that I still haven't given up. {Snip} ...
Ben Meisner
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BC Mary comment: My wish for 2011, a Public Inquiry into the matter of alleged criminal negotiations which led to the loss of Canada's 3rd largest railway, a public asset of critical value to the health of the Province of British Columbia. """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Comments:
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Note/query to Ben:
You would know, I think. What was that one plan I seem to remember about the employees seeking to buy the railway out? Were they excluded from the bidding process, or otherwise ignored, and on what rationale? Or am I thinking of maybe what is now the Southern Railway, the old BCER?
You would know, I think. What was that one plan I seem to remember about the employees seeking to buy the railway out? Were they excluded from the bidding process, or otherwise ignored, and on what rationale? Or am I thinking of maybe what is now the Southern Railway, the old BCER?
I am so glad that this post has come about. The first title posted by Mary tells us everything, forget Basi/virk and lets get onto BC Rail.Lets quit looking for minnows while the sharks are hungry!
Don
Don
# posted by 
: December 31, 2010 at 10:36 p.m.
: December 31, 2010 at 10:36 p.m.
That was BC Rail and the employees unions were not allowed in the bidding process. It was I that wrote that first comment at the top of Misners column. I was misinterpreted something I read and wanted an answer from Mr. Meisner. I got that reply below. I apologized to Mr. Misner and I also informed him that I was fighting for BC Rail with anyone that would listen. I have friends who work at CN and were giving me the gears about the sale. I still fought on.
I don't have the arena Mr. Misner has but I can tell you this, I am as passionate as he is regarding the sale and I still tell everyone who will listen.
I don't have the arena Mr. Misner has but I can tell you this, I am as passionate as he is regarding the sale and I still tell everyone who will listen.
# posted by : December 31, 2010 at 10:54 p.m.
: December 31, 2010 at 10:54 p.m.
Thank you for clarifying so much grey area for us Ben, I do appreciate it.
At this late date, with all the "water under the bridge" and a judiciary seemingly in cahoots with the government and CN...how do we assist you in this fight? What can we do specifically to help?
As Don F. said, this is no longer about Basi/Virk...we know what they did, and why. They really ought to be hanging their heads in shame, instead, they seem to be smiling and enjoying life knowing they're secure. At our expense. Mind, feeling shame requires integrity, and they've proven themselves to have absolutely none - which is why Campbell appointed them. Birds of a feather.
This IS about BC Rail and the theft of billions of dollars worth of citizens money, and assets. It's THAT issue we must focus on...so how do we help you Ben? Letter writing and hand wringing won't cut it, we need a concrete plan of action to follow...can you help us by laying one out? Maybe you and Mary can get together...with the help of others, and help us find a new direction in this fight.
At this late date, with all the "water under the bridge" and a judiciary seemingly in cahoots with the government and CN...how do we assist you in this fight? What can we do specifically to help?
As Don F. said, this is no longer about Basi/Virk...we know what they did, and why. They really ought to be hanging their heads in shame, instead, they seem to be smiling and enjoying life knowing they're secure. At our expense. Mind, feeling shame requires integrity, and they've proven themselves to have absolutely none - which is why Campbell appointed them. Birds of a feather.
This IS about BC Rail and the theft of billions of dollars worth of citizens money, and assets. It's THAT issue we must focus on...so how do we help you Ben? Letter writing and hand wringing won't cut it, we need a concrete plan of action to follow...can you help us by laying one out? Maybe you and Mary can get together...with the help of others, and help us find a new direction in this fight.
# posted by : January 1, 2011 at 6:50 a.m.
: January 1, 2011 at 6:50 a.m.
Why are the BC Liberals not answerable for BC Rail and other obvious crimes perpetrated on the citizens of BC. Are there no laws in this country to bring charges against governing polititians in cases of corruption, conflict of interest, influence pedaling and a myriad of other obvious illegal activities executed by the BC Liberals in the last 10 years. If there are laws to bring the perpetrators to justice, why isn't it happening?
# posted by : January 1, 2011 at 12:23 p.m.
: January 1, 2011 at 12:23 p.m.
There is one set of laws for the citizens, and another set of laws for politicians. Campbell's election lie, the BCR would not be sold, was said, to ensure Campbell would be re-elected, so he could continue his dirty work and sell the BCR, as he intended to all along. My brother, worked with the BCR. It was the best and most profitable, run rail line in all of Canada. He was a superintendent. The judicial system, judges, are corrupt. The RCMP are corrupt. There is corruption in BC, right from the top of the food chain, right down to the bottom. Campbell being the most corrupt premier, in all of Canadian history. He most certainly belongs in prison, for thieving and selling the BCR. That railroad, belonged to the BC people. Campbell had no right to put his filthy hands on it, what-so-ever. If the everyday person, did what Campbell did, you can be dammed sure, they would do time, and be very heavily fined. No Liberal official, would thieve tax payers money, to pay all of your court expenses, nor, pay you to keep your mouth shut. And, everyone Campbell gets to do his dirty work, had better be aware. If push comes to shove, he will cut their throats, the same as he did to Basi and Virk, for following his orders. Campbell calling them criminals is the joke of 2010. What will the disaster of the century be? The Gulf oil spill or, Gordon Campbell?
# posted by : January 1, 2011 at 5:48 p.m.
: January 1, 2011 at 5:48 p.m.
John H, I believe the strongest thing we have in this country is here in BC. It's called RECALL.
The problem is that the majority of people in the province have very short memories, have been brainwashed by the PAB and the lieberal MLA's, or are just plain apathetic.
I firmly believe that a complete overhaul of the governing system in BC is needed. And in order to do that the masses must be awakened. Right now the government is buying off people to not vote in recall and they have pulled out all the dirty tricks in the book. As well as some we haven't heard about.
Should there be a public inquiry into the giveaway of our railway I am positive that not only back room people but actual sitting or former sitting MLA's will be charged.We should have had recall in 2001 but not too many people were aware of the process. That has changed and now the MLA's are running scared.
The problem is that the majority of people in the province have very short memories, have been brainwashed by the PAB and the lieberal MLA's, or are just plain apathetic.
I firmly believe that a complete overhaul of the governing system in BC is needed. And in order to do that the masses must be awakened. Right now the government is buying off people to not vote in recall and they have pulled out all the dirty tricks in the book. As well as some we haven't heard about.
Should there be a public inquiry into the giveaway of our railway I am positive that not only back room people but actual sitting or former sitting MLA's will be charged.We should have had recall in 2001 but not too many people were aware of the process. That has changed and now the MLA's are running scared.
Let's not forget the giveaway of almost every creek big enough at freshet to turn a turbine with a guarantee to buy power at up to 10X value needed or not, and the giveaway of BC Ferries, the attack on BC Wild Salmon to satisfy mostly foreign corporations (who cannot get away with the methods employed on our coast at home), BC Gas and the gradual disposal/destruction of BC Hydro - but BC Mary is correct, BC Rail is the template -
We don't have enough eyeballs to see everything they are stealing 24/7/365!
We don't have enough eyeballs to see everything they are stealing 24/7/365!
What you BC Mary have worked so hard and long for: a fair and open PUBLIC INQUIRY into the duplicitous sale of BC Rail - the PEOPLE'S RAILWAY built up to operate for the people/by the people - as a PUBLIC ASSET . . . . . will become a reality.
Justice comes cloacked in many clothes.
Again, I congratulate the unwavering focused attention YOU haven given for years to see justice in the BC Rail Scandal, BC Mary and wish you all the best for 2011.
Justice comes cloacked in many clothes.
Again, I congratulate the unwavering focused attention YOU haven given for years to see justice in the BC Rail Scandal, BC Mary and wish you all the best for 2011.
# posted by : January 4, 2011 at 11:45 a.m.
: January 4, 2011 at 11:45 a.m.
I would be remiss in failing to give credit to where credit belongs:
It was the populace, visionary Premier WAC Bennett who created the thriving BC Railway.
He must feel betrayed by the present disgraced Premier Campbell who originally upon being elected, told everyone how much he admired the former Premier who led BC into an era of prosperity for everyone's best interests.
It was the populace, visionary Premier WAC Bennett who created the thriving BC Railway.
He must feel betrayed by the present disgraced Premier Campbell who originally upon being elected, told everyone how much he admired the former Premier who led BC into an era of prosperity for everyone's best interests.
# posted by : January 4, 2011 at 12:20 p.m.
: January 4, 2011 at 12:20 p.m.
Let's talk about the real problem of how the Campbell 'team' operated.
John Rustad's role in the Northern triumvirate replicating 'Mo, Curly & Joe' of years gone by, under Deputy Premier Shirley 'sham' Bond and fellow 'Clubber' Pat 'big boy' Bell all reporting to mini Premier Martyn Brown?
Keep your mouth shut and do as your told.
They had their 'act' down pat.
Coverups & deceit have reigned supreme; BC Rail wasn't the only issue.
Now let's talk about a very private mtg held with these 3 Stooges and some deeply concerned constituents handing over packages of documented evidence of corruption on another big economic matter involving key land bureaucrats.
Results after Bond ordered the other 2 to NOT open the package?
Zero. Nothing. No further communication.
BUT . . . Bell made Land Minister and Bond retained Deputy Premier after reporting back to the Prem's Office with said envelopes.
The BC Rail scandal is putrid. But it is a symptom of a much deeper disease with much more to surface.
John Rustad's role in the Northern triumvirate replicating 'Mo, Curly & Joe' of years gone by, under Deputy Premier Shirley 'sham' Bond and fellow 'Clubber' Pat 'big boy' Bell all reporting to mini Premier Martyn Brown?
Keep your mouth shut and do as your told.
They had their 'act' down pat.
Coverups & deceit have reigned supreme; BC Rail wasn't the only issue.
Now let's talk about a very private mtg held with these 3 Stooges and some deeply concerned constituents handing over packages of documented evidence of corruption on another big economic matter involving key land bureaucrats.
Results after Bond ordered the other 2 to NOT open the package?
Zero. Nothing. No further communication.
BUT . . . Bell made Land Minister and Bond retained Deputy Premier after reporting back to the Prem's Office with said envelopes.
The BC Rail scandal is putrid. But it is a symptom of a much deeper disease with much more to surface.
# posted by : January 4, 2011 at 2:19 p.m.
: January 4, 2011 at 2:19 p.m.
Anonymous:
From Day One -- years ago -- I've said that BC Rail was the first disaster, and the template for all other scandals when BC's public assets were stolen for private gain.
And you know more. What an opportunity you have to blow this whole festering heap of corruption out of the swamp.
May I suggest that you watch your back ... take no chances ... but write a full report on that "very private mtg held with these 3 Stooges and some deeply concerned constituents handing over packages of documented evidence of corruption on another big economic matter involving key land bureaucrats."
Place your report in a Safety Deposit Box,
and give the key to someone you can trust to do the right thing.
There must be hundreds and hundreds of people who have first-hand
evidence which -- if used wisely -- could bring the perpetrators to justice.
In our favour, there's a new awareness in British Columbia now. I hope you'll take a leading part in the improvements.
Thanks for writing. Please keep in touch.
.
Post a Comment
From Day One -- years ago -- I've said that BC Rail was the first disaster, and the template for all other scandals when BC's public assets were stolen for private gain.
And you know more. What an opportunity you have to blow this whole festering heap of corruption out of the swamp.
May I suggest that you watch your back ... take no chances ... but write a full report on that "very private mtg held with these 3 Stooges and some deeply concerned constituents handing over packages of documented evidence of corruption on another big economic matter involving key land bureaucrats."
Place your report in a Safety Deposit Box,
and give the key to someone you can trust to do the right thing.
There must be hundreds and hundreds of people who have first-hand
evidence which -- if used wisely -- could bring the perpetrators to justice.
In our favour, there's a new awareness in British Columbia now. I hope you'll take a leading part in the improvements.
Thanks for writing. Please keep in touch.
.
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