Tuesday, December 07, 2010


First: BC Rail ...

BC Mary comment: This is my absolute favourite Letter-to-the-Editor on the occasion of the Carole James resignation, quoted from The Progressive Mind ...  HERE.


CBC News - British Columbia - James resigns as B.C. NDP leader

ronwilton wrote:
Posted 2010/12/06

I don’t care what ‘party’ you represent, you get my vote if you swear on your mother’s grave (or grandmother’s) that you will

-call a BC Rail inquiry

-rescind the ROR contracts

-refuse oil super tankers on our coasts and in our ports

-stop the coal truck super highway through Burns Bog and over ALR

-take back our crown land from Western Forest Products and companies

-reposition and remove Foreign Fish Farms away from wild migration routes

-cancel FFF permits when they expire and don’t issue new ones

-return HST taxation to corporations

-make banks pay their fair share of taxes

-not renew RCMP contract for twenty years

-restore BC Utilities Commission to it’s proper purpose

-return BC Hydro to solvency

-remove the ’shadow’ tolls on the S2S and the Bennett bridge

-change the name of the Bennett bridge to WAC Bennett bridge

-turn back BC Ferries to a Crown corporation

-remove Anne McKenzie from the bench

-have the law society censure Bill Berardino

-make the proper authorities prosecute Gordon Campbell and his henchmen for their influence peddling and bribe taking.

That will do for a start.


Here, courtesy of The Globe and Mail, are the 6 New Democrat contenders who would like to become the new premier of B.C.:



I second that!
This is a good start for a to do list. One I hadn't really thought of, but REALLY like is:

"-change the name of the Bennett bridge to WAC Bennett bridge"
Campbell should be tried for treason, for what he has done to this province, and the people in it. He needs to be in prison, for his corrupt sale of the BCR. De Jong should be charged for, his blatant cover up of Campbell's corrupt sale. The BCR trial, took place in a corrupt court, presided over by a corrupt judge. The judge allowed brain dead witnesses, she is a disgrace to her profession. Shame on the RCMP, for refusing to do a further investigation, of the corrupt sale of our railroad. Thousands of BC people don't even want, the RCMP as an icon for Canada. Their crimes are just as bad, as the people they arrest. They are a disgrace to our province. Many of us, don't want the RCMP's BC contract renewed. The feeling is, the provincial police have made changes for the better. All in all, BC is a huge morass of corruption.
"-make banks pay their fair share of taxes"

What exactley is a "fair share"?
As a bank they have to pay normal corporate taxes. Why should they have to "pay more"?
Heh Ted give us a break with your PAB spin. You can't rewrite the past just to suit you. Read it and go stick your PAB crap back in the toilet where it belongs.
Now that former Deputy Premier Christy Clark has joined the race to become the next Premier of BC, can we ask for a commitment from all participants for an absolute guarantee from them that they will call for an Inquiry into the BC Rail sale to CN Rail?

Just what kind of guarantee?

How about a pre-nuptial agreement between the Leader of the BC Liberal Party and the BC Supreme Court
Hi Rick,

Give an idiot enough rope and they hang themselves. How's it hanging?
In the article you presented, it clearly states:.

"According to the Socred finance minister, the phase-out applied to all companies operating in B.C. "except major banks which have their headquarters outside the province".

In other words, Rick, banks would have to pay taxes that other companies operating in BC wouldn't.
So Rick, somehow, in your twisted mind, that's fair.

I think Rick, that you should pay Ontario sales taxes on all BC purchases + the BC HST, I think that would be fair to Rick because Rick benefits from Ontario and hence should pay his fair share of Ontario's taxes.

What Rick? That sounds stupid? Now you know how you sound!
In the Federal House, there was a motion passed by the entire house. That motion was to give, banks, mines, large company's, gas and oil company's, billions of our tax dollars. They get huge tax reductions. And because, big business is a bottomless of greed. They all lined up at the trough, squealing for the HST too. Canada is a huge cavern of corruption. BC is the most corrupt province in Canada. Campbell has stolen from the poor, to give to the wealthy. The big boys, have the big bucks, to pay the party, that favors them the most. What party would stomp out corruption, not one. We try to choose, the lesser of the evils.
or perhaps ...

Thanks for the article Rick; everyone should read it. It fully shows that every government since the NDP instituted the tax has screwed the banks over by making them pay a tax that other companies don't.

So you agree with me that for the Banks to pay "their fair share" would mean they wouldn't have to pay that tax that only financial institutions pay. Unless your definition of fair is discriminatory, unlevel, biased, skewed or uneven.

It is obviously unfair that say the Royal Bank pays the tax but other major corporations (perhaps Walmart?) doesn't.

That's the only conclusion I can draw from the article. It is clear the tax is discriminatory against financial institutions. To argue otherwise would be foolish.

Perhaps you should rephrase the statement:

"- Banks should continue to pay their excessively unfair share of taxes;"

Then at least the nuance would be correct.

Fair warning: remove the insults against another commenter or your next comments will be deleted. No need for it.
BC Mary,

Sorry for the first post; after reading the "crap" comment I became a victim of Newton's Third Law. I actually suspected that the first post would have been moderated away so I wrote the second one. Kudo's to you though for allowing "Freedom of Expression". I will temper my comments in the future.
If the LIBS get elected again, there is no way that there could be a fair inquiry into the sale of BC Rail. There is just to much political interference into all things judicial in this province.
The only way to get at the truth is to elect the NDP.
Ted, you are just another modern day "robber baron" or robber baron fan or wannabe. Your attitude and spin is the perfect illustration of the following gem uttered by a great man who was born in Canada but helped FDR guide the US through the last depression - those banks you love being so much busy now trying to create the next and even Greater Depression.

"The modern conservative is engaged,
in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;
that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.
____John Kenneth Galbraith

You think you are making sense and being logical with:

"So you agree with me that for the Banks to pay "their fair share" would mean they wouldn't have to pay that tax that only financial institutions pay. Unless your definition of fair is discriminatory, unlevel, biased, skewed or uneven."

However you miss the point, or more accurately, you miss a lot of points.

For starters banks enjoy shared monopoly position thanks to their charters and their role in money creation and control of credit. Canadian banks are particularly protected from much competition compared to financial institutions in the US and other countries.

If you've been paying attention you may have noticed that the Canadian Banks issue humongous profit statements, often of a billion or more QUARTERLY, no matter how strong or weak the economy - and this is before Carole Taylor gave them the added profits in return for position on one of their boards. Just like a sharp bookie, the banks win on all bets, well except when their own greed leads them to take outrageous risks with other people's money!

Of course these banks, benefiting from their own personal form of socialism (and protection from any real competition) continue to provide less jobs, handle less actual money and continue to extort the public with outrageous service charges and reward their executives with totally unjustifiable salaries, bonuses and stock options. The basically usurious and deceptive credit card interest rates make them basically a licensed legal loan shark.

Though the Canadian banks are so fat and well looked after they haven't haven't had to yet, mostly due to sensible regulation that the HarpoCons hadn't gotten around to gutting yet, most North American and European banks, having almost destroyed the economy of the planet, see nothing inconsistent with becoming Billion or Trillion dollar welfare cases at the expense of the same taxpayers that they are kicking out of their homes for fear of "moral hazard" that apparently doesn't apply to them.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with taxing different activities at different rates or with different taxes based on the social value, advantages granted by government, ability to pay and damage those activities (and the costs to society - generally the taxpayer) may cause to society or the environment.
I think fair would be for a corporation such as a bank that makes billions of dollars on the backs of people, that by no fault of their own as it is what the system has become have little or no choice but to engage their services, can well afford to pay tax. Banks produce nothing yet are rewarded by huge profits. Is it fair then that they are permitted to create money out of nothing and charge their customers interest on the non existent money. With the unfairness of that arrangement I think it is more than fair that they should pay tax if for no other reason than for that privilege that they have been bestowed to steal from the people through the fraudulent creation of money.
Interesting points KootCoot; so by the same logic, a BCGEU member should pay more income taxes because they technically have a legislated monopoly of Government administrative labour. They also reap the benefits of the working BC class by getting paid more than the average private sector worker doing the same work. I'm sure the NDP would fully support the idea that they should pay a proportionally larger fair share of taxes.

I'm willing to bet that you don't think that's the same thing. Your right. Banks actually compete against each other for my services whereas there is absolutely no competition in BCGEU jobs.
Come on Rick, you can't be serious? Unless the comment about "Banks producing nothing" is just a sly shot because they're a service provider. The Medical Service Industry of BC produces nothing as well but they sure provide an important service. Shall we tax them more because of that as well. The people through no failt of their own have to use it; so let's make doctors pay proportionally more taxes.

Another thing I find quite disturbing is that there is this pervasive idea that "the bank" is this evil thing, owned by "the rich" who care little about the "little people". Whereas I am willing to bet that the Banks are proportionally owned by the greatest percentage of people in this country than any other entity. That is to say that a great majority of Canadians have a financial ownership interest in the Banks and any excess taxes the Banks pay is proportioned out to the citizen owner anyways. Before you say "that ain't so"; try finding a mutual fund, or ETF, that doesn't have a Canadian Bank in it's portfolio in one way, shape, or other.
Ted, the banks create money out of thin air this is not a secret. They get to charge interest on the non existent money from the one who supposedly borrowed it. The only problem as there has not been any money created to pay that interest it has to be taken from someone else hence the debt just keeps on growing and growing and growing as it can never be paid as there is no money to pay it with it has not been created. Out and out theft of the peoples labour. So they produce nothing but our rewarded lavishly for that feat. Can you say Ponzi scheme.
Rick, that's 1 of 2 ways that "money is created" in the Canadian system. I don't understand your logic after that. I'm sure there are places in the world though that don't have banks, and you can find a workers paradise there (good luck on that). Perhaps though, you may want to study history and see how crucial the "banking sector" has been in the development of our civilization. Or for that matter, just play "Civilization" and see how your culture does without researching banks :)
So now we know why Ted Sentral is so smart - he learned everything he thinks he knows from playing Civilization - and everybody knows it's the Sims that explains how the universe works!

(to understand the BC Government play Grand Theft Auto).

And just because Banks can perform a useful function doesn't mean they are not out of control with criminality and greed currently. Guns can help a person eat or they can kill people - in self defense or for unjustified aggression!
Better game to understand how the system works is Monopoly. Are you the games token(legal fiction NAME) or are you the player(lawful flesh and blood man/woman Name).

Thanks for the space Mary, I did email Krog about trying to make sure no evidence would be destroyed in the BCRail farce but he is apparently missing in action. I also emailed Cameron Ward to see if there could be an injunction filed to prevent the same until there has been a public enquiry, alas ditto.
It appears that Anonymous lacks reading comprehension. I blame the schools on why Little Anony can't read. I think you missed the definition of "or". You can study history OR you can see the simple concept played out in a game. Just like Chess teaches one to think ahead; try it sometime.

Your latter statement has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The question being raised is do Banks pay there fair share of taxes and/or the banks being unfairly treated by paying more taxes than other large companies that operate in BC. Your banal comments on greed, criminality and gun control just exemplifies that you're not following the conversation. Blame your teachers; I would!
Methinks Lil' Anony can read just fine and was merely mocking you for suggesting life lessons, other than how to play a game and perhaps some sportmanship, could be gained from playing a game. I've played Civilization and think it a cool game, but hardly something to base one's real life values upon. BTW, you're the one that brought Civilization into the conversation.

You remind me of the ideologues on the US Supreme Court, the Scalito-Roberts faction that recently decided that the first amendment doesn't just apply to free speech for humans, but to corporations and by default MONEY!

Many of the current economic problems with inequal distribution of wealth and media concentration can be traced to the fact that under the current legal matrix - derived from bought and paid for flawed decisions - corporations (and by default MONEY) are accorded all of the rights of individuals yet have myriad legal rabbit holes that allow them to avoid the responsibility for their actions that people have to also accept.

If I were to be caught draining a skidder's crankcase oil into a stream I would be fined at the least if not jailed - yet Exxon other than costs they couldn't avoid during the Exxon Valdez intitial clean-up have still never paid a dime of the original BILLION dollar settlement finding against them. Today the damages have been greatly reduced yet Exxon continues to appeal and appeal - no one other than the captain, who wasn't even on the bridge at the time it ran aground has faced any sanctions of any kind. Yet those whose livelihoods were destroyed by the carelessness are still paying the price. All the more reason to stifle the Enbridge Pipeline now before 200 supertankers a year are crossing the Hecate Strait and going in and out of Kitimat. Not to mention the inevitability of multiple events along the pipeline itself that would make events near Kalamazoo this summer seem like me changing the oil in my skidder into the creek.

Society (read government) has the right to tax, charge royalties etc. on various activities at different rates, based on the value, contributions, desirability etc. of the activity to society as a whole. Even Warren Buffet thinks it grossly unfair that his effing secretary pays a higher marginal rate on her income than he, one of the richest men on the planet is expected to pay.

You are the one whose teachers have failed you in allowing you to become some kind of absolutist who apparently can't engage in critical thinking enough to even differentiate between an legacy DOS based game and real life.

Perhaps banks should pay no taxes, after all they are the backbone of civilization according to you. Perhaps if my house is burglarized the police should pay as much attention to apprehending the perps as they do to trying to catch bank robbers - though of course they might not even show up to take a report at my house if no one was injured. BTW, perhaps you didn't notice but the enormous profits that banks, especially Canadian banks report quarterly come AFTER taxes - and in any business, taxes are a business expense - unlike the taxes I pay for the privilege of living and/or simply dying.
It appears the schools have failed you as well. You and the cohort of "absolutists" constantly stray from the topic at hand in hopes that deflection will somehow reinforce your position that banks should pay a greater percent of taxes than other large corporations. Maybe your memory is weak; that's what started this whole thread.

Everytime you people bring up an insanely pedestrian point I counter it by your own logic to show how silly it is. Then in your defence, you deflect or defer to something that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
Momma must be proud of little Johnny's debating skills.

I'm sure you will counter with another inane point completely off the topic like, money buys guns, or that oil is the cause of species extinction, or that corporations don't pay MSP premiums. I don't really care anymore. You and your group of "Yes Men" can continue on your own.

Good luck in your life's endeavours. I'm sure you do very well for yourself and will continue to do so. I personally think you should run for public office; you have all the makings of a successful candidate :)

Bye Bye.
Sorry to point it out to you Ted Senseless, but you are the one that brings absolutely no logic to the discussion. You merely repeat that you are right, because you say so. You are like someone insisting on the Vigin Birth or the Holy Trinity, because you say it is so.

The fact is corporations large and small are treated differently by government and taxation policy for various and often justified reasons. Indeed some corporations, in certain businesses as well as garnering certain tax advantages are actually subsidized, like Agri-Business, gas exploration in BC and Big Oil in general.

You are a bigger idiot than you already appear if you are unwilling to admit that the right, limited to the very few with the charter, to PRINT effing money out of thin air and then profit from its use, isn't a really special PRIVILEGE. If banks are asked to contribute to the society that provides the security within which they operate a little more than someone who actually produces something, especially in a field that involves actual RISK, that isn't a problem to any sensible person with a sense of fairness.

BTW I haven't heard of any coddled big Canadian Banks going bankrupt lately, due to unfair taxation or any other reason. I have noticed banks closing branches and reducing services to their customers in the less profitable regions though and raising the costs of those services to those to whom they provide them. Also I would like to repeat that they are also licensed to commit usary with their credit card con games -charging up to almost 30% interest in some cases in an environment where if interest rates were any lower lenders would have to pay people to borrow! When you or I lend money to the bank (ie make a deposit) we get what 1% or so?

I couldn't agree with you more Kootcoot.
Guys like this will drink this less tax is better kool-aid until they explode.
OK, folks:

Fair warning. This blog isn't set up to provide citizens with a place where they can hurt one another.

Next batch gets deleted.

This blog -- just to remind us all -- is about BC Rail. And about preserving and protecting such public assets from piracy.
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